Genesis 1:16 and apologists- vegetation before the Sun?

by joey jojo 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    Gen 1: 11 says:

    11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth produced [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed according to [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, according to [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day. (nasb)

    Then, in Gen 1:16:

    16 God made the two great lights, the greater light [x]to govern the day, and the lesser light [y]to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the [z]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and [aa]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. (nasb)

    So, according to Genesis, vegetation was created and grew, even produced fruit, for untold eons, before the Sun, or Moon were created.

    Its quite amusing to read the mental gymnastics apologists put forward to explain these verses. Everything from light being emitted from black holes, to light being diffused by the good old water vapour canopy. However, the bible verses cant be any clearer to an average person reading them. There are a lot of quotes from JWorg about the accuracy of the bible but here are a couple worth considering:

    "ALTHOUGH the Bible is not a science textbook, it is accurate when it discusses the natural world." - IS THE BIBLE REALLY FROM GOD?


    Logical conclusion drawn from that statement; we accept the bible as it is written, there is no need to interpret any verses.


    Concerning these verses JWorg says:

    Myth: The Bible says that vegetation was created before the sun existed to support photosynthesis.​—Genesis 1:​11, 16.

    Fact: The Bible shows that the sun, one of the stars that make up “the heavens,” was created before vegetation. (Genesis 1:1) Diffused light from the sun reached the earth’s surface during the first “day,” or epoch, of creation. As the atmosphere cleared, by the third “day” of creation, the light was strong enough to support photosynthesis. (Genesis 1:​3-5, 12, 13) Only later did the sun become distinctly visible from the surface of the earth.​—Genesis 1:​16. - Does Science Agree With the Bible?


    The JW answer is, as usual, misleading and disagrees with the bible account. The bible does not say that the sun was created along with 'the heavens'. It is very clear, the sun and the moon were created on the 4th day, after vegetation. If the first few verses of Genesis are read literally, then 'the heavens' do not include the sun, stars, or the moon.


    This all ends in a paradox, either the bible is wrong, or the jw's are wrong. The bible, according to jw's, can't be wrong, but they feel the need to correct the bible account in this instance- even though, according to them, its right.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    I had that question decades ago, when I was in my late teens / early twenties. Wasn't baptized yet, and an older female JW was studying with me. She was probably 60 at the time. I asked her about that, and she said that the sun had already been created, but that the light from it couldn't reach the earth yet. I said, well, how then could plants survive without sunlight? They need it for photosynthesis. She said that the heat from the sun could have driven photosynthesis.

  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut
    16 God made the two great lights, the greater light [x]to govern the day, and the lesser light [y]to govern the night;

    The moon isn't a light...it reflects the light of the sun.

  • waton
    waton

    vegetation before the sun? absolutely not, the central star is 500 million years older than the planets. but

    life without sunlight? absolutely. fungi, deep ocean vent inhabitants. life seems to be able to harness any raw energy gradient and use it for its proliferation.

  • HowTheBibleWasCreated
    HowTheBibleWasCreated

    Well I say JW's have an issue with this. They say the sun was created before day one and then only on day four was the sun moon and star reveled in the heavens because plants were adding free oxygen to the atmosphere.

    But note Exodus 20:11- for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy. -WEB

    So actually I have sympathy for young earth creationist at least they are BIBLICALLY correct.

    The reality is this is a story in Genesis 1 taken from Berrousus who took this from Enuma Elish an ancient Babylonian story.

    The order of the days is:

    1- Light

    2: Division between heaven and earth of waters

    3. Land and Plants

    Now watch>>

    4. Sun and Moon and Stars parallel day 1

    5. Birds and Fish paralleled day 2

    6. Beast and Humans paralleled day 3


    Day seven is the Sabbath which Exodus 20:11 (From the same author says)

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    I agree that it is no good trying to come up with fanciful ideas trying to harmonise the order of creation with what we know today. The comments made in the past by the WTS are indeed desperate.

    I am not a literal Genesis creationist but I still hold to the basic view that “in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth “ . Call me what you like but ,to me, that makes more sense than a godless abiogenesis.......

    I view Genesis chapter one as a simplified parable, not a scientific document.

  • waton
    waton
    “in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth “ .

    BB: sounds great, but it is wrong, if you put a timeframe on "beginning," or Big Bang brand. ,

    The sun is a 3rd generation*** star, 10 billion years removed from the beginning of the first. and

    yes, right, the universe did not make itself, from eternal energy.

    *** may be the overlapping generation idea started with Genesis 1 " ha ha.


  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    Day 4 included sun, moon and stars, which seems to indicate that 'the heavens', if it was already created was simply vast emptiness.

  • jhine
    jhine

    I'm with Blues Brother on this .

    Jan

  • Rocketman123
    Rocketman123

    Another description for god is human ignorance in the realm of intellectual honesty.

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