The Holy Bible proves its inspired accuracy again...

by Derrick 54 Replies latest jw friends

  • Derrick
    Derrick

    Due to my busy schedule I was going to wait until things settled down a bit before tackling a debate with Alan and others in this topic. However, I was drawn to "sneaking a peek" at this topic because I had a very unusual dream last night.

    I guess the dream last night was triggered from this topic -- because it seemed illustrative of the whole mindset I feel up against in defending my faith in God and his written word. Although I'm surprised the dream would therefore include Alan when it included somebody entirely unexpected that everyone reading this topic will recognize!!

    Because I type fast and think others who believe in JW reformation might totally relate to it, I'll hammer it out, and try to keep it short and sweet. Then I'll address whatever points raised since my last point when I can.

      Keep in mind, this dream occurred just a few hours ago! Also, I'm very serious and promise that I'm not just making this up as a metaphor. It was a very vivid dream that I can only figure was triggered by my reading the replies in this topic, perhaps triggering a flood of memories from the H2O days? I honestly don't know, maybe someone who understands psychology can take a stab at why I would suddenly have this dream.

      The dream starts where I'm walking in an expansive stone paved old English schoolyard that reminds me of a boarding school. It is surrounded by fencing and English countryside. I don't know why England and this old turn of the century boarding school is the setting.

      Next to me is a group of people from this forum, including Alan, Simon and Jan. We are having this heated argument and I feel this sense of being outnumbered, but I cannot remember specifically what we are discussing. I am vaguely aware we are being watched by these cameras mounted high above the schoolyard on the roofs that are recording everything occurring below.

      Everyone gets tired of arguing with me, and shaking their heads, they disperse one by one. The only one left walking next to me is Jan.

      It is now Jan and myself walking alone in this schoolyard. Jan starts to run ahead and insists I follow. He's laughing and very relaxed, like maybe he wants to start jogging. I then call out to Jan, who is now a distance away, and say, "want to see something really cool that I can do?"

      I then run toward him and start to levitate into the air, rising higher and higher until I'm looking down at him. He just stands there, looking up and me. I finally go back down to the ground, and he loudly says something like, "Alan, Simon, anyone?" but nobody is around. Jan appears very distressed. I follow him as he makes a beeline into the building, down long corridors and into an office with lots of television screens and equipment. As he is fiddling with a device that reminds me of my Tivo hard-drive television recorder, into the room walks Alan, Simon and few others that seem familiar but I can't remember their names for the life of me at this moment.

      "Did you see that??" Jan asks them.

      To which they give him and puzzled look and Alan asks, "see what? What are you talking about?"

      Jan rolls his eyes and says, "I'll show you!" I can see on the television screen Jan and myself moving in reverse very quickly as he is rewinding. We are going backwards down the long hallway, exit the building backwards into the schoolyard, and then walk backwards to the point directly after my landing on my feet on the ground after this little "stunt." Then the recording ends abruptly, as if it wasn't recording anything before that moment after I did what Jan now wanted to prove to the others.

      Jan yells some expletives followed by "I don't believe this! Show them what you just did, they're never going to believe me."

      "Show us what? Believe what?" questions Alan with a strange look on his face, like he's disturbed at Jan's sudden anxiety and angry excitement as he keeps working the controls on the recording device as if he is trying to get it to rewind further. For some reason I find this funny, and start laughing, which annoys Jan all the more.

      "Jan thinks I can fly," I say to the others, laughing.

      "Are you serious?" says Simon. Alan starts snickering. Jan has this shocked expression on his face. The apparent realization that I'm going to refuse to repeat this stunt really pisses Jan off. There's this priceless expression with a mixture of every human emotion -- fear, anger, outrage, betrayal, shock, a kaleidoscope.

      As the dream abruptly ends, I'm standing there thinking that he seems more concerned with what others think than just to witness some bizaar event. The dream abruptly ends.

      Right at this moment I'm thinking that deep down, I must believe that my subconscious is expressing something about my reaction to Alan's and Jan's refusal to believe in anything beyond the ordinary, let alone in God's ability to create "impossible" events.

      In recent years I rarely experience such vivid dreams. And no, I didn't have chile the previous night! ;)

    So what does anyone think? Be kind! I know on the surface this dream might seem silly! Believe me, this is the last kind of dream I would expect to have!

    Incidently, the setting and country where the dream takes place was odd, and for the life of me, I don't know why Simon appeared in the dream with the group. ;)

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    Well Derick

    To me, this dream and the way you express it, is all about your feelings and the way you won’t be able to prove what you want to prove.

    And finally the one who fell bad is not you (Jan is … Why ? – because you need someone else to feel bad about that – not you) and the interesting part of the dream is that you don’t even try to prove it to the others when they are there … but you laught at Jan … See what I mean ?

    But I’m not a psy … It can mean something else

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    Derrick, here's my interpretation. I'm no Joseph or Daniel but i'll give it a shot:

    The dream starts where I'm walking in an expansive stone paved old English schoolyard that reminds me of a boarding school. It is surrounded by fencing and English countryside. I don't know why England and this old turn of the century boarding school is the setting.

    Perhaps you think of yourself (and Alan, Simon and Jan) as "old school" or perhaps your view of a classic education involves a very traditional style learning establishment.

    Next to me is a group of people from this forum, including Alan, Simon and Jan. We are having this heated argument and I feel this sense of being outnumbered, but I cannot remember specifically what we are discussing. I am vaguely aware we are being watched by these cameras mounted high above the schoolyard on the roofs that are recording everything occurring below.

    That seems to relate to what you're actually experiencing here. Your'e arguing with Alan and Simon and not Jan, but his intellectual successors to a certain extent. The cameras are possibly the other posters here (although the use of videotape later in the dream shows they may have a scondary role).

    Everyone gets tired of arguing with me, and shaking their heads, they disperse one by one. The only one left walking next to me is Jan.

    Again, this seems to relate directly to what you experience here. People do get tired of arguing with you. It can be very frustrating as you seem to learn nothing and only to accept that which supports what you have already decided to believe. I'm not sure why Jan remains with you, perhaps because in your experience he tends to stay in arguments longer than others, or perhaps it was just as a setup for what was to follow.

    It is now Jan and myself walking alone in this schoolyard. Jan starts to run ahead and insists I follow. He's laughing and very relaxed, like maybe he wants to start jogging.

    I then call out to Jan, who is now a distance away, and say, "want to see something really cool that I can do?" I then run toward him and start to levitate into the air, rising higher and higher until I'm looking down at him. He just stands there, looking up and me.

    Dreams of flying are normally associated with success or feelings of elation. I don't think that's the case here though. I think showing Jan you can fly is more important than the flying itself (i.e. it could just as easily be disappearing or turning into a frog etc.). You respect Jan and your dream gives you an opportunity to do what you can't do in real life, prove to him that you're right about something he doesn't believe.

    I finally go back down to the ground, and he loudly says something like, "Alan, Simon, anyone?" but nobody is around. Jan appears very distressed. I follow him as he makes a beeline into the building, down long corridors and into an office with lots of television screens and equipment. As he is fiddling with a device that reminds me of my Tivo hard-drive television recorder, into the room walks Alan, Simon and few others that seem familiar but I can't remember their names for the life of me at this moment.

    "Did you see that??" Jan asks them.

    To which they give him and puzzled look and Alan asks, "see what? What are you talking about?"

    Jan rolls his eyes and says, "I'll show you!" I can see on the television screen Jan and myself moving in reverse very quickly as he is rewinding. We are going backwards down the long hallway, exit the building backwards into the schoolyard, and then walk backwards to the point directly after my landing on my feet on the ground after this little "stunt." Then the recording ends abruptly, as if it wasn't recording anything before that moment after I did what Jan now wanted to prove to the others.

    Here you've cast Jan in the role in which you normally find yourself, that of the believer in impossible things. Jan finds, when challenged that there is no evidence for what he believes to have happened; a situation you must be familiar with.

    Jan yells some expletives followed by "I don't believe this! Show them what you just did, they're never going to believe me."

    "Show us what? Believe what?" questions Alan with a strange look on his face, like he's disturbed at Jan's sudden anxiety and angry excitement as he keeps working the controls on the recording device as if he is trying to get it to rewind further. For some reason I find this funny, and start laughing, which annoys Jan all the more.

    "Jan thinks I can fly," I say to the others, laughing.

    Here, you and Jan have completely reversed roles. He's making absurd claims, trying frantically to find the evidence for what he already believes and you're ridiculing him. But there's a difference, which we'll come to shortly.

    "Are you serious?" says Simon. Alan starts snickering. Jan has this shocked expression on his face. The apparent realization that I'm going to refuse to repeat this stunt really pisses Jan off. There's this priceless expression with a mixture of every human emotion -- fear, anger, outrage, betrayal, shock, a kaleidoscope.

    This is a classic dream scenario, victory over an adversary. In this dream, you do to Jan what you think he does to you all the time. You take pleasure in his frustration as you believe he does in yours (and you're probably right.) The real difference is that, in real life, Jan doesn't believe your claims. You may think he's posturing in front of his buddies when he ridicules you, and maybe he is, but he genuinely doesn't share your ridiculous beliefs. Perhaps, subconsciously you are committing that typical fundamentalist faux pas of thinking that everyone secretly believes in your gods and monsters, but doesn't want to admit it for their own selfish reasons.

    As the dream abruptly ends, I'm standing there thinking that he seems more concerned with what others think than just to witness some bizaar event. The dream abruptly ends.

    I don't think that's what the dream means. Jan in this dream isn't Jan; he's you. You usually find yourself in the frustrating and humiliating position of losing arguments. You've projected this feeling onto your nemesis because you don't really understand why you keep losing.

    Right at this moment I'm thinking that deep down, I must believe that my subconscious is expressing something about my reaction to Alan's and Jan's refusal to believe in anything beyond the ordinary, let alone in God's ability to create "impossible" events.

    I think your subconscious is trying to win an argument by cheating. And I think the reason is because you think that's how Jan, Alan et al. win their arguments. You're really the one who's frantically trying to rewind the videotape. You see Jan as someone who secretly knows you're right but would rather see you suffer than admit he was wrong. And ultimately, I believe, you would try to "win" an argument by manipulating the evidence.

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    you said : So what does anyone think? Be kind!

    I was thinking ... Maybe you won't like what I've said ... but it is what I think (don't think it's mean, because it's not - it is just my point of view)

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    Oh ! FunckyDerrick : I didn't read your post yet ... Wow you did it very detailed !!! Well ... I agree

    I've felt a bit bad about what I've wrote, but still thought he asked for it ... the truth ? or to be kind ?
    I've tried Both then ...

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