A City Having Real Foundations.

by LostintheFog1999 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • truthlover123

    Ron W.

    Michael= Jesus = ??

    Remember Michael was ONE of the archangels, Gabriel was another- apparently there were more. in Daniel - one of them tried to help Daniel based on Daniels prayer but was held up until Michael , one of the foremost princes , came to help. ( Daniel 10:13)

    In Jude its noted that Michael disputed with the devil over Moses body- If Jesus was the Word, as John 1:1 states, and with Jehovah forever before the founding of the earth, why would he be called Michael, a lesser one, in the heavens?

    In Revelation, John ascribes the writing to Jesus- a revelation by Jesus Christ. If so, why does he, Jesus, mention Michael and the angels fighting with the demons? Why wouldn't Jesus say "I and my angels fought against the demons?"if they were the same entity?

  • blondie

    Verses that don't mean what it says:

    What verse does the WTS to come up with the idea "governing body"?

    "Read Acts 15:1-35, and see how the first-century governing body discussed and resolved a dispute with the help of the Scriptures and holy spirit."

    Acts 15 No where is the phrase "governing body" ever used. And it will be hard to find where the WTS in its publications puts quotes around that phrase, meaning that phrase is not in the bible scripture cited.

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz
    An example is the film The Book Of Eli. The bad guy wants to get a Bible in post apocalyptic times because it can be played like a musical instrument to control people. History proves this to be true.

    Just because Jehovah's Witnesses misinterpret the Bible by cherry picking verses doesn't mean the Bible is not correct. You still haven't provided me an example from the Bible

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    If there are two hopes - heaven & earth - then some mental gymnastics are required to alter these verses:

    (John 10:16) "...they will become one flock, one shepherd." (A flock in heaven and earth? That's two flocks!)

    (Ephesians 4:4) . . .the one hope . . . (not two!)

    @ BoogerMan : The Watchtower is the only Christian denomination that teaches this nonsense of 144,000 going to heaven and a great crowd staying here on earth.

    All other denominations including the Bible and the first Christians believe that these two groups are the Jewish and the Gentile Christians, still all Christians, still one hope.

    In anyone's reasoning, a ransom never exchanges/replaces with something better or greater, and since Adam forfeited perfect life on earth for every single one of his prospective descendants, surely that is what the ransom should return????????

    (1 Corinthians 15:22) For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.

    This is not Biblical, the chapter you are quoting in 1 Corinthians speaks for our new bodies raised into immortality in heaven in the same way Jesus did.

    So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

    It is quite clear from these verses that the RANSOM sacrifice has nothing to do with what body you are getting in the New system, in fact the opposite is true.

    The first Adam became a living earthly person and so are we, but the last Adam=Jesus became a life giving spirit and so we will too.

  • jhine

    Revelation 21 talks of a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH and God making His dwelling among men . It all becomes one

    The old heaven and earth are gone . So the Org.'s idea of a life on this earth as it is has to be wrong .

    I have heard of JWs going round choosing which houses they will live in after all non JWs have been annihilated.

    Well those houses will be gone .

    Jan from Tam

  • ElderBerry

    JWs are the only ones who think Michael is Jesus, their reasoning is only that “who else could be powerful enough to battle with Satan and his demons and throw them out of heaven.”

    The entire 1914 doctrine is wrong, this battle didn’t happen in 1914 and why is it only Jesus who could battle with Satan and his demons? Surely God could empower one of his archangels to do the job?

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz


    JWs are the only ones who think Michael is Jesus, their reasoning is only that “who else could be powerful enough to battle with Satan and his demons and throw them out of heaven.”

    By all accounts Jesus is Michael of the Old Testament, don't fall for the Trinity nonsense, another cult like the jws, that use name calling and mental gymnastics to prove the Trinity.

    The same people who take offence in Jesus being the Michael the Archangel are the same people tgat believe that Jesus was the "angel of the Lord" in the Old Testament

  • Ron.W.
    Is Jesus or God the Alpha and Omega?
    In the New Testament Revelation to John, the term is used as the self-designation of God and of Christ.

    This is another one I used to dread trying to explain to a knowledgeable bible study from a jw perspective.. Here is the jw's current explanation:

    Does Revelation 22:13 prove that Jesus is “the Alpha and the Omega”? No. The speaker at Revelation 22:13 is not specifically identified, and there are various speakers in this chapter. Commenting on this section of Revelation, Professor William Barclay wrote: “Things are set down without any apparent order; . . . and it is often very difficult to be sure who is the actual speaker.” (The Revelation of John, Volume 2, Revised Edition, page 223) Thus, “the Alpha and the Omega” at Revelation 22:13 can be identified as the same Person given this title elsewhere in Revelation​—Jehovah God.

  • BoogerMan

    @ Blondie: "...see how the first-century governing body discussed and resolved a dispute with the help of the Scriptures and holy spirit."

    This is what the faithful evil slave says. but not what the Scriptures say:

    bt chap. 13 p. 103 - "....the first-century governing body settled the circumcision issue..."

    Galatians 2:1-6 shows that it was the apostle Paul who was used to resolve the issue, being directed by a revelation to teach the older men in Jerusalem - not the other way around. (especially verses 2 & 6)

    1 ...after 14 years I again went up to Jerusalem with Bar?na·bas, also taking Titus along with me.

    2 I went up as a result of a revelation, and I presented to them the good news that I am preaching among the nations.

    3 Nevertheless, not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, although he was a Greek.

    4 But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who slipped in to spy on the freedom we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us;

    5 we did not yield in submission to them, no, not for a moment, so that the truth of the good news might continue with you.

    6 But regarding those who seemed to be important whatever they were makes no difference to me, for God does not go by a man’s outward appearance - those highly regarded men imparted nothing new to me.

  • TheScientist

    Guys, understand one thing: the point is not who goes to heaven or who lives on Earth..

    The point is this:

    "Hold on, that's not what the verse says, read it again".

    WT was lying to the audience and he realized this and it was the starting point to question more things.

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