A City Having Real Foundations.

LostintheFog1999

Someone asked me recently when did I start to have doubts as an elder about what I was teaching from the platform.

I have given it a lot of thought and I can say that it was when I was delivering a Public Talk about the book of Hebrews. I had delivered the outline before and parroted off what was on the page in front of me many times before.

However on this occasion I was reading Hebrews 11:10 from the platform of a neighbouring KH to my own, a verse which says that Abraham was awaiting the city having real foundations - at which point the outline said something along the lines of he was looking forward to life on a paradise earth under God's heavenly kingdom - when my brain said to me "Hold on, that's not what the verse says, read it again". So I paused and read it again.

I looked at the audience and said to them let's look at the cross-reference for this verse which is Hebrews 12:22 and I read that verse. After which I remember saying "and this is how the outline puts it.... " and I read from the outline verbatim.

Abraham was NOT looking forward to an earthly kingdom hope. It was as clear as a flash of brilliant lightning to me in that moment. However I went on with the printed material and finished the PT getting my usual applause at the end.

That was definitely the starting point of my questioning things that the organisation wanted me to tell people in public talks that made little sense to me from a well researched Bible study.

It didn't take me too long to latch on to John 6:53-59 and begin to understand that everything pointed to a heavenly hope, the very same one that Abraham was looking forward to (through his many one-to-one conversations with Jehovah and/or Jehovah's angels) as recorded in Hebrews.

I believe that PT was my 'road to Damascus moment' when I stood up there realising that I was 'blind' to the real truth. I can still relive the feelings I experienced then as I write about it now.

Since becoming POMO I have come a very long distance both in time and belief. I recently bumped into a person who used to go to JW meetings but no longer does, and John said that my PT in his hall made him start to question. He added that he's been disfellowshipped now because of his return to smoking but that he's pleased that myself and others are still talking to him and treating him as normal (his words) not as an outcast.

I said that anyone treating others as outcasts was added proof that they were in a cult not a Christian church because Jesus our Lord had no issues with eating and fellowshipping with anyone be it Pharisees, prostitutes, tax collectors or "sinners". Witnesses set themselves up as "holier than thou" pre-judgers. A far cry from Jesus's example.

I still use Jehovah's name when I privately talk to God, I have a deep personal faith in Jesus. But, Praise the Lord, I am not one of those Jehovah's Witnesses anymore. And I am awaiting the city having REAL foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

Additionally, I want to wish all of you POMO and PIMO friends a very Happy New Year 2024.

jehovaxx

What about all the scriptures that talk about the meek will inherit the earth? And reside forever upon it.

there are many ways to support heaven for some but there are many ways to reason the Bible promises earth for some as well

raymond frantz

Great verse, but needs to align with the rest of the Bible. Jesus was quite clear when he said that the cut off for heavenly life is John the Baptist, any believer before him is destined to earhly life, any believer after him to heavenly life.

You are correct to surmise that the city that Abraham was looking forward to was a real city and not some vague promise for paradisaic life on earth, the city's name is New Jerusalem and will descend down here on earth after the 1000 years where Abraham will have all the time in the world to inspect its foundations

ExBethelitenowPIMA

You can play the Bible like a musical instrument, it can play many tunes depending on how you play it.

raymond frantz

ExBethelitenowPIMA

I don't believe that dear friend, please feel free to share an example

ExBethelitenowPIMA

An example is the film The Book Of Eli. The bad guy wants to get a Bible in post apocalyptic times because it can be played like a musical instrument to control people. History proves this to be true.

Parts of the Bible can be played in many different ways, just look at all the ways organised religions play these verses especially the JWs

Ron.W.

4 hours ago

LostintheFog1999
Someone asked me recently when did I start to have doubts as an elder about what I was teaching from the platform...

Thank you very much for your post.

Your post reminded me of puzzling over that Hebrews 11:10 verse from a jw standpoint as a studious regular pioneer many rears ago..

(I seem to recall reading that Barbara Anderson mentioned Heb 11:10 to a GB member who said something like 'We don't focus/dwell too much on that verse.' If anyone can remember that??)

I hated things as a regular pioneer that I could not explain and prove to householders biblically from a jw perspective.

Heb 11:10 was one.

Another was Rev 19:1 - Great Crowd in heaven.

And also my worst one when conducting a bible study with someone:

For many decades it was taught that the full number of the 144,000 had been chosen by 1935.

God how I hated trying to prove this biblically!!!!

"But it seems that in the mid-1930's, the full number of the 144,000 was basically completed." Watchtower 1996 Aug 15 p.31

BoogerMan

@ Raymond Frantz: The problem I have about a "heavenly hope" centres on the ransom:

(Matthew 20:28) ...to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”

In anyone's reasoning, a ransom never exchanges/replaces with something better or greater, and since Adam forfeited perfect life on earth for every single one of his prospective descendants, surely that is what the ransom should return????????

(1 Corinthians 15:22) For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.

If there are two hopes - heaven & earth - then some mental gymnastics are required to alter these verses:

(John 10:16) "...they will become one flock, one shepherd." (A flock in heaven and earth? That's two flocks!)

(Ephesians 4:4) . . .the one hope . . . (not two!)

LostintheFog1999

Rob W.

Thank-you for your kind words.

I hated trying to explain WT interpretation verses to Bible studies as well.

Another belief that I could never accept was that Jesus was the archangel Michael. It never made sense to me. It rendered null and void the line of reasoning in the opening chapter of Hebrews.

"13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?"

Well he said it to Michael.

" 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? "

Um, well, he said it to the chief angel Michael....

Illogical.

truthlover123

LITF -- I so agree with you. Hebrews chapter 11 is full of eye opening information that the org has misinformed the pubs. there is a lot to unpack and heavenly Jerusalem is one of them - ties in with Revelation and those thoughts on the kingdom.

We have been cut off from asking questions for so long, because it places us in jeopardy of being spiritually sick. Days gone by after meetings and having dinner at someone's home, the bible was always a point of discussion along with the talks. No one was adamant things were wrong - even though they were- just a good discussion. But no more - no answering outside the paragraphs, robots all,. canned answers repeated from paragraphs just read.

A City Having Real Foundations.

4 hours ago

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