DECEPTIVE JW ELDERS - CASE#4c

by Amazing 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    DECEPTIVE JW ELDERS – CASE#4c

    [The following is a little over 4 pages, but it is worth the read and it gets better as you get to the end.]

    While I personally experienced several more acts where JW Elders lied to me personally, the following is the most serious because it involved Brother A. I mentioned him earlier where he was lied to by the JC and they used a ‘confidential’ file against him that they developed over ten years – a file he was never allowed to see or defend himself against.

    Sometime between January 1993, the JW Elders on the JC were in the final stages of their meeting with Brother A. This was before his first appeal. One of the issues driving the Elders was their concern over my association with Brother A. They had reached the conclusion that I was an apostate, and had influenced Brother A to also become apostate. They based this on two points, 1) I was no longer attending meetings, and 2) Brother A was seen visiting me at my home one time.

    The Elders had not for over a year and nine months attempted to make a shepherding call on me, and they never called me to verify any aspect of my friendship with Brother A, his visit to my home, or the nature of that visit.

    Some Background: I resigned my position in late April, 1992. I had just given the Memorial Talk a few days before. I told the PO I needed time away, and would not be attending meetings for a while. I also cited my wife’s health and the attention I needed to give her and our relationship. Although he did not want to see me resign, he was understanding and very nice about it and accepted my resignation.

    By November 1992, many events had transpired, and during that time I was ultimately able to force my resignation upon them through the CO. But, as this happened, the wheels of justice were turning on Brother A. He and I were friends, but had NOT in any way discussed any issue related to his religious views or mine. He had made an unfortunate and careless remark to a Reg. Pio. couple at dinner which ended up becoming a JC matter. I was at this point not even aware of any of this.

    During the initial phases of this event, Brother A came up to my house one time. A JW couple lived next door to me and saw him. During that visit, Brother A brought over some mechanical devices and drawings. He had invented a contraption and wanted my engineering review. He also wanted my signature as witness that he did indeed invent this device, so he could establish the date in the case there were any competitors who tried to copy him. During that visit we never once discussed any religious matters, or opinions about religious teachings or JW theology. But just his presence at my home, was enough for the JW neighbors to report the matter.

    The JC is now in progress: Brother A is having meetings with the JC, and at some point, he realizes that they are far more concerned with me than they are with just him. He starts calling me to let me know what is going on, what the Elders are saying, and, and their insistence on getting him to testify against me, that is, how I was somehow leading him away from the truth by putting ideas in his head. [Bear in mind that they had been watching him for 10 years keeping a file on him, and then warned me against him when I first arrived in their congregation.]

    The Trial Proceeds: About a month or so into Brother A’s so-called trial, the Elders were getting exasperated because Brother A was able to dodge many of their allegations, and he was effective at pointing out some of the Society’s serious errors in its teachings and its history. [Today, the Elders would not spend this time to debate Watch Tower writings, but would merely seek a loyalty oath or disfellowship. This was already in place in 1992, but the Elders in many congregations had not yet caught on to the new swift DF methods when dealing with those accused of apostasy.]

    During this time, before Brother A and I have any further visits, the Elders go as far as telling Brother A that I had already testified about my relationship with him and that he may as well come clean and tell all he knows about me. No such thing ever took place, but they lied to him. He figured this out by the way they asked the questions and most importantly, he stuck to the truth and simply stated that I had not discussed my views with him, nor ever tried to influence him with my views, and that he did not discuss his views with me.

    Another Visit: Brother A finally visits me again after the above portion of the trial, but before the trial is over. We then do discuss what is going on, although he is reluctant to say too much because he does not want to compromise my situation or his own. But he does bring over some WTS books to show me what the issues are that caused the inquisition by the JC. I did not make this request of him, but he volunteered because he wanted me to see how they are more concerned with loyalty than historical accuracy or truth.

    I looked at what he showed, but I was admittedly slow to see his point. So he had to explain it to me. I finally saw his point, and agreed that the Elders were making much ado about nothing. During this visit, I sensed that he was not in agreement with the Society and felt comfortable enough to finally share some of my feelings. But, I was not ready at the time to make a wholesale attack on the Society. He also had a book on the history of the Christadelphians and how their teachings were very much like the Society’s, and he felt he had some evidence that C T Russell may have borrowed his views from them prior to meeting Nelson Barbour, the Adventist.

    I was eager to read this book written by John Thomas, the founder of the Christadelphians. So, I asked to borrow it, and in return he borrowed my copy of Steve Hassan’s book, Combating Cult Mind Control. This was a serious mistake because when Brother A got home with the book, his wife saw it. She also knew he had been at my house. So, in his next JC meeting, he was questioned about sharing apostate materials with me. He was again able to dodge their inquiry by pointing out that the book on “mind control” does not deal with Jehovah’s Witnesses, but is about the cult called the Moonies. He did not mention the book about Christadelphians to them. So, the Elders let this drop, but it did confirm in their own minds that Brother A indeed was now in communication with me on some level.

    Brother A also informed me about the Elders continued attempt to get him to testify against me and how they told him I had testified that he and I were having apostate discussions, which was a deliberate lie. Brother A stated that the PO was taking the lead on this line of questioning, and was very adamant about me supposedly giving details to them, and how Brother A needs to ‘fess up’ to them about his relationship with me.

    My Phone call to the PO: I called the PO to confront him about the lie told to Brother A about my alleged testimony. The PO was taken back with my call and sounded like I caught him off guard. I repeated the confrontation and asked if he had told Brother A during the JC meeting that I had given testimony regarding my relationship with Brother A or about supposed apostate discussions. The PO at first tried the old “its confidential” trick. I stated that since Brother A revealed this to me, and it involves me and the truth of a matter affecting condemning a brother, that such ‘confidentiality’ will not fly, or I will be talking to the CO.

    I asked the question for a third time of the PO, ‘Did he or did he not tell Brother A that I had given testimony about my relationship with Brother A and held apostate discussions with Brother A. The PO stuttered and stammered for a minute or two (and I suspect he was nervous and felt put on the spot – in fact, I had not heard anyone so caught off guard in a long time) and the PO finally said to me, “NO, nothing of the kind was ever said to Brother A about you.”

    The Shepherds Visit me: A couple of months after Brother A DA’d himself, the Shepherds called to make a ‘shepherding’ visit on me and my family. The family did not want this, but I went ahead and agreed because I wanted to confront them on some matters. The family all arranged to leave and do other things.

    The two Elders who showed up at my door happened to be on the JC that had met with Brother A. During the visit I confronted them about what the PO said to Brother A, and they confirmed that it was true, that the PO told Brother A that I testified in an effort to “smoke” him out as they put it. I asked why they would lie to Brother A in such a serious setting. What they said in response was the first time in my 25 years of association that I had ever heard applied to a JC event. They said it was necessary Theocratic Strategy when dealing with suspected enemies of Jehovah’s organization. I then confronted them with the PO’s lie to me, and asked if that too was Theocratic Strategy. They attempted to changed the subject. But, I did not let them off the hook.

    The Elders squirmed and twitched a little and finally admitted it was likely inappropriate for them to use such tactics. Then they hit me with a bombshell, they said I have a case against the PO and I should consider bringing him up on charges of bearing false witness in the JC meeting. I was floored, then replied that since they participated in the lies told to Brother A that they would have to be included in those charges. They said that I could do what I have to do, but that my only witness will be Brother A, who is now a Disassociated person and cannot testify against them. This time it was I who was stunned and speechless.

    So, I then brought up the fact that they were hiding a child molester in the congregation from the law, and their obligation to turn over the molester to the authorities. They acted ignorant of what I meant. So, I gave them the name of the molester, cited the criminal statute requiring they report the matter, and threatened to go to the authorities myself. This could lead to their arrest and imprisonment.

    The Elders then begin to beg me to keep the matter confidential to the organization, that my going to the authorities would cause considerable harm and would not benefit Jehovah’s name. I then tried to appeal to their sense of concern for children in the Kingdom Hall, and they were emphatic that they shared my sense of concern. I then asked them why they told their children about the molester but left the congregation in the dark.

    They changed tracks and asked how I knew about all this. I told them that I have my sources, but it is ”confidential.” I then told them that I will indeed go to the authorities if they do not. They said they would think about it.

    The Elders then changed tracks again and commenced to ask about my beliefs and my views of the organization and whether I still felt IT was the Truth. [I always love that word IT is the Truth, as though IT has some kind of relationship with us or died for us.] I discussed some matters, but in vague terms so as to avoid having them turn the tables on me.

    The Elders agreed with some of my concerns but then went into why I was not attending meetings and whether I was going to return to meeting attendance. I said that as long as they allow a child molester to run loose, I would never be back. They said that my children were all old enough that Brother Molester would not bother them. I was amazed at this callous view they expressed. So, I mentioned that I expect that grandchildren will be coming along, and that the point is not just about my family’s safety, but the welfare of all the children in the Hall.

    The Final Comment: As our meeting was about to end it became clear that any shepherding, if it was their intent, did not take place, but rather that I had caught them in a boldface lie, and they were not really repentant. They were not truly concerned about having a child molester in the Hall. They seemed more concerned with ‘smoking’ me out to use their phrase. [Also, I had been forewarned that this was their intent. But I think I shell-shocked them with what I had to say.

    Then, one of the Elders dropped another bombshell on me in response to some of my concerns about the teachings and practices of the Society. He said that I am ... “welcome to believe anything I want and remain a JW, but the important thing was to “keep my trap shut” and not spread my views. I asked him if he really understood what he just said, and how it sounds. He nodded his head in the affirmative (I guess he meant to be affirmative.) I told him that I could never live that way. At this the Elders closed with prayer, asking Jehovah to bless my family and keep us in the organization.

    The Deception?: Bearing False Witness against their brother in the name of Theocratic Strategy. Also, while being all-concerned with concerns of Brother A that they would be willing to Lie to get him, they were at the same time willing to cover over, essentially lie, about the continued activity of a child molester in their midst.

    It is, as always, Simply Amazing

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Hey Amazing:

    Great post! BTW did you get any of your encounters with the Elders on tape?

    One....

    Bigboi

    "it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Bigboi: Thanks for your comment. Unfortunately, I did not get anything on tape. At the time, I was not even thinking about making a tape. Funny, though, the Shepherding visit at my home was in my living room. I had a good tape ystem that could have been used very discreetly, but the idea never occured to me.

    I do have a tape of a full JC session with a couple who DA'd themselves at the end of the JC meeting. It is very interesting to listen to and is typical of many such meetings.

    At one point shortly after this there was some talk of the Elders having a JC meeting with me. A local Baptist Pastor offerred to go with me to act as a witness to the event. But, I declined because the Elders would never allow such participation by a 'worldly' religious pastor.

    I was never called to a JC meeting, but about 2 years after the Shepherding meeting, the Watch Tower SOciety wrote me a letter stating that the local Elders met and determined that I had DA'd myself, but that I was welcome to challenge this before they read any announcement. I was given 10 days to respond. I did respond, but I will save that account for another post. - Amazing

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Amazing,

    I do like the "stories" ! Keep on!

    Btw, I have to tell you frankly that this part ...is very, very
    familiar also in many part of EUROPE!

    "Then, one of the Elders dropped another bombshell on me in response to some of my concerns about the teachings and practices of the Society. He said that I am ... “welcome to believe anything I want and remain a JW, but the important thing was to “keep my trap shut” and not spread my views. I asked him if he really understood what he just said, and how it sounds. He nodded his head in the affirmative (I guess he meant to be affirmative.) I told him that I could never live that way. At this the Elders closed with prayer, asking Jehovah to bless my family and keep us in the organization."

    And they suppose to "defend the truth"...

    Agape, J.C. MacHislopp

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit

    Hi Amazing:

    Thanks for these threads. They show so clearly how ridiculous is the WT's claim that elders are appointed and guided by holy spirit.

    Thanks also for a great phrase in a previous post: "Brill cream elders." That's one I'll be borrowing!

    A question: when the elders decide that a person has disassociated themself, is there any difference in the announcement made to the cong from the platform, or is it the same patter?

    I can only remember a few announcements, none of them clearly.

    Expatbrit

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Expatbrit: Thanks. You asked, "A question: when the elders decide that a person has disassociated themself, is there any difference in the announcement made to the cong from the platform, or is it the same patter?"

    The Announcements are essentially identical. When DF'd they say that 'so-and-so is disfellowshipped. When DA'd, they say, so-and-so has disassociated him/her self from the congregation (or from Jehovah's Witnesses.)

    When I first became a JW they used to say for 'conduct unbecoming a Christian,' and sometimes mention what it was about. But all that changed in the 1970s, I guess due to litigation. - Amazing

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit

    Thanks, Amazing.

    So even though a person may not want to have been da'd, the announcement makes it look like theytook the action, rather than it being forced on them.

    Deceptive in itself, really.

    Expatbrit

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    HI Expatbrit: You noted, "So even though a person may not want to have been da'd, the announcement makes it look like theytook the action, rather than it being forced on them. ... Deceptive in itself, really."

    You are 100% correct. In my own case, the WTS had been informed by the local Elders that they wanted to take action. But, my certified letter to the Society prevented any action. So, they cooked up a scheme whereby they determined I had "Disassociated myself" and went through the Society. The wrote to me regarding the so-called Determination by the local Elders. They then left it up to me to do something about it. The Society never took action.

    I called the local Elders, but they demanded everything in writing, and so I wrote to them a long letter and agreed to meet with them and said I would wait on them. That was almost 6 years ago, and I am still waiting. Rumor has it that they did announce that I Disassociated myself, but the truth is I never did any such thing at the time. Since then, of course, I have considered myself no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. But, the action taken was clearly on the part of the Elders, and not me. - Amazing

  • LDH
    LDH

    I have to remember not to read things that can easily nauseate me while pregnant, Amazing.

    In all honesty, with all of the horror stories I have posted, if I was either a 'worldly person' or still 'in the truth' I would find all of things things so HARD TO BELIEVE.

    Only someone who has walked the walk and talked the talk and seen the light for themselves knows what you are talking about.

    Someone on this board once wrote, "You don't know which questions to ask until it is too late."
    AMEN.

  • Francois
    Francois

    I tape recorded my meeting. After it was over, one of the guys stayed over and asked me to turn off the tape. He then told me that a certain elder was "out to hang me from the highest tree."

    Several days later when I repeated what he had said when the tape was off to yet another meeting of their kangaroo court, he denied it under oath. He was also three-quarters shit-faced at the time.

    I knew I was going to walk out on the Borg anyway, but this lie told by a guy who had been my good friend previously demonstrated the utter spiritual decadence of the Borg and all its henchmen.

    Francois

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit