Which is the best translation of the bible...

by TheApostleAK 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • dshields1
    dshields1

    You wrote:

    "And finally, why does “calling God his own Father” make Jesus equal to God. Are you equal to your father? Or are you two different beings? I never understood how that verse (John 5:18) was a proof text for Jesus = God. Especially when Jesus corrects them in
    verse 19 by saying that “the Son can do nothing by himself, he can do only what he sees the Father doing” and in verse 23 explains that he is the representative of “the Father who sent him.”"

    Okay now we are getting somewhere. If you have a son and he grows up what does he become? A man just as YOU are. If God has a son then by all means the Son will have the same characteristics and abilities as the Father does. The very fact that Jesus is called mighty God and Eternal Father might indicate to most people that He shares the stature that God the Father has. Also, if there were no such thing as a trinity then why in God's name would we have to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit is an active force as the WT likes to say then why would He even be mentioned? That's kind of like saying eat this cake in the name of the cook, the server, oh yes and electricity. Many people confuse the fact that here Jesus is living in human form. He left his glory in heaven. He therefore was no longer all knowing (No man knows the day nor the hour not even the son but the Father)nor all powerful. Many of the WT arguments are based in this mistake. Jesus Christ resumed His power upon His ascension.

    If that isn't enough how do you explain John 20:28 where Thomas stated to Jesus "My Lord and my God." (literally ho kurios and ho theos or "the lord of me and the God of me." And don't try to squeak by it with the old WT sidestep "Oh that was an exclamation." Jesus Christ would have scolded him for taking the Lord's name in vain. Jesus asked him "having seen have you believed?"

    How do you explain the margin in the Kingdom Interlinear which translates John 8:58 CORRECTLY? This is the true literal interpretation of the Greek here.

    You wrote:

    (Out of curiosity, Doug -- How do you explain the difference in the Greek Septuagint ho ohn’ translated ‘The I Am’ at Exodus 3:24 and the Greek ego eimi at John 8:58? I am not being a smart aleck. I would really like to know.)

    Firstly and I'm not being a smart alec either...its Exodus 3:14 not 3:24.

    Secondly the reading at least from what I can see from the RSV for example is this:

    "God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" (RSV)

    I don't see a "the" in front of this from where I'm sitting. Furthermore, your assertion that it is dishonest to translate this in all caps also misses the point. If you as a translator find that a particular verse is even a partial quote of a previous old testament scripture then the long held practice of capitalization is honored.

    As for Hebrews 1:6 even the WT admits that Paul was quoting Psalms when he applied this to Christ. See the following quote from the January 15, 1992 Watchtower:

    CERTAIN translations of Hebrews 1:6 say: "Let all the angels of God worship him [Jesus]." (King James Version; The Jerusalem Bible) The apostle Paul evidently quoted the Septuagint, which says at Psalm 97:7: "Worship Him [God] all ye His angels."-C. Thomson.

    If one prefers the rendering "worship," such worship is relative, for Jesus told Satan: "It is Jehovah your God you must worship [form of pro·sky·ne'o], and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."-Matthew 4:8-10.

    So the Watchtower admits openly that Hebrews 1:6 is a quote from Psalms and in so doing admits that it has mistranslated the Septuagint by changing the word "worship" to "obeisance". Actually in its first version the NWT was translated as worship here at Hebrews 1:6. Of course it was changed later because it disagreed with their theology.

    This is the crux of the whole issue. Jesus accepted worship (proskuneo) in many ways via bowing down by his disciples. They even at one point grabbed his feet and bowed down to him. (Matthew 28:9, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:17, John 9:38, Acts 10:25 IN ALL INSTANCES THE WORD FOR WORSHIP OR "OBEISANCE" IS PROSKUNEO) Notice that Colossians 2:18 condemns worship of angels. (Proskuneo) Yet when Shadrack Meshak and Abednego were asked to worship the idol they refused. When Cornelius tried to do the same to Peter he refused and reproved Cornelius. When John tried to do the same to the angel in Revelation he refused TWICE and was reproved by the angel. (Rev 19:10 and 22:8 SAME WORD PROSKUNEO) Yet Jesus Christ never once refused or reproved his disciples in any way for their worship of him.

    The fact is that Jesus was worshiped while on earth by His disciples. (Proskuneo) All other servants of God in the New Testament refused worship (Proskuneo) except for Jesus Christ. This makes for a tough case if Jesus Christ was created. OR WAS HE?

    "He is without father or mother or geneology, and has neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever." (Hebrews 7:3 RSV)

    The WT takes the Greek word "proskuneo" and translates it "worship" when it applies to the Father. When it applies to the son they conveniently translate it as "obeisance". It is the same word with the same meaning as has already been proven above.

    All of God's angels worship Him as well. Stephen even prayed to Him in Acts 7:59.

    My point is that Jesus Christ holds a much higher office than the Watchtower gives Him. He is (I believe) equal to God the Father in importance as He (The Father) has given Him a name above every name. There is also no other name by which we must be saved. We must honor the Son just as we honor the Father. (Acts 4:12, Phillipians 2:9, John 5:23)

    Regards,

    Doug

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