Is Mankind Born Evil....or Good?

by Farkel 119 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  greven

  Deep subject Farkel and an excellent way of presenting it!
  

  As biology student I tend to look at this problem from a biological perspective.

  First of all it really depends on how you define 'good' and 'evil'. Usually 'good' is defined as conforming to the group or society one is born in. 'Evil' is then defined as subverting from this conformation. The good one works with the system in a give and take manner, the evil one works the system more like a parasite. Since the urge to conform is very strong in the human tendencies (we are a flock- or herd like species) this would answer your question that humans are born 'good'.

  In nature we see that in populations both 'conformers' (the majority) and the 'cheaters' (a minority) survive. Both strategies work. However, the cheaters can only exist because of this majority that conforms. Calling one of them 'bad' seems nonsense because one group creates the possibilities for the other. In the struggle to survive their are no rules. What matters is reproductive success. The strategy to reach such success is neither good nor bad. Just different roads to the same destination.

  Just as in nature their are also 'cheaters' in the human population. But I think comparing the two is meaningless because we as humans are self-aware which makes a huge difference. What works best in our society is to conform to rules that equals the chances of survival for each individual. We see this as 'good'. Example: love, sharing. Intentionally harming another's chances is then seen as 'bad'. Example: stealing, murder.

  Just my two cents,

  Greven
• 

  gumby

  most people don't go out doing harmful things to each other regularly and deliberately, this also shows humanity's inherent good.

  People not hurting one another on a regular basis does not prove of course, that man is born good. People also learn behavior patterns from one another. Most people learn NOT to hurt each other unless the parent was a total lunatic demon. They learn this "is bad" and displeases others.

  Personally....I believe man is wired to be good. Why? .......it's harder to be angry and mean than to be loving. Kindness is always welcomed with a smile by humans wheras badness is not. People live longer who are happy, over sad mean people.

  I think the fact that a loving nurtured baby out performs in every way....a baby who is neglected or treated bad.........shows we work better in all anenues when good is present vs. the bad.

  I have ALWAYS wondered what makes people different under the same circumstances. Two kids from the same parents raised basically the same can turn out totally opposite from one another. Why? Is the brain so complex that there are so many factors involved that we cannot at this time begin to know? It seems that way.

  You touched on an intresting thing about Hitler. I wonder how much of the weird things people do.....is not the result of a brain malfuntion rather than a personal conviction. When I get mood swings.....I'm not myself. Some people are on a constant "mood swing" as their actions show. Are they just ill......or inherently bad?

  Now my brain hurts...........I'm going back to bed now and when I wake up.....I hope the hell someone has figured out this dilema so I can start the day with a new learned knowledge.

  Great thread Fark...........we needed one

  Gumby....( I am gonna call ya BTW)
• 

  peacefulpete

  I agree with Greven. Behavior and our reactions to it have been shaped by evolutionary pressures. And in different situations different survival stategies have been more successful. An interesting new theory about truly psychotic people proposes that while society will always (and rightly so)deem them as abberant, they do appear to be an actual viable genetic variety rather than a genetic defect. They display a whole range of common characteristics seemingly unrelated to the actual antisocial personality.
• 

  gumby

  BTTT

  (deep thinkers only please)
• 

  Ravyn

  I believe in reincarnation and karma, altho not strictly in the eastern sense. I believe that the question of being born good or evil is one of karma now, but originally the first humans were neither, but had the potential for both. I do not believe in Original Sin. however I do believe that humans, as we are, were not intended to be created on this planet, but were a response to the material entrapment of spirits, and our humanness furnished a vehicle for salvation from this self-imposed condition. Sin being ignorance and Redemption being enlightenment. Enlightenment being the only thing that can free us from the matter so we can return to the spirit where we truly belong.

  In which case Good and Evil would be the process. Verbs not Nouns.

  Ravyn
• 

  StinkyPantz

  Gumby-

  (deep thinkers only please)

  Doesn't everyone think that they think deeply?
• 

  minimus

  We have inherited both good and bad traits. We are more naturally "good". Otherwise, people in general would be "wicked" and "evil" and that would show itself in the condition of humankind. I think generally, people are not "bad". They are "good"......I like to think of how people come together instinctively during a crisis. Look at 9-11. People showed their spirit of self-sacrifice, their "goodness".
• 

  Panda

  This is so interesting and everyone seems to have really been thinking about the subject. As dubs we believed good was following god and evil followed satan. But when a person is born I'd say culturally they are tabula rasa. That does not include though the most important instinct which is to survive. As infants we demand to be fed when we're hungry. We demand to be made comfortable. And if the foods not right we puke. Our cries as infants are meant to attract Mom to care for us. So survival isn't evil or good in the devil/god sense. Fortunately for us we did our best to get the food and attention we needed to be safe enough to grow up and provide for ourselves.

  But then there are those who do not develope a conscience. They have no fellow feeling. I think that their survival techniques did not work out so well, so that from infancy they were damaged goods. So does that make them evil? I don't think so. They have another way to survive albeit often violent. I'm thinking about the Ted Bundy's or Saddam Hussein's of the world. Violence against humans is all about empowering themselves. One thing for sure that without the proper nurture our natures go seriously awry.

  But then we get into the good/bad of the demented actions. And that begs us to ask, what would be the effect on the torture/murder victims. Definitely bad right? IMO giving someone the handle of Evil-doer is setting them on some supernatural level. Like evil is too hard to overcome. And it is ,if you plan to rehabilitate the BundyHussein, but if you just kill him then that supra evil is easily overcome.

  Then the next question --- well you know...

  Panda
• 

  peacefulpete

  excuse my ignorance but what does BTTT stand for?
• 

  Englishman

  This question "are we inherently good or bad" actually marks us out as to whether or not we are good witness fodder. If you think the answer is "good" then you aren't going to be a good witness.

  I always believed in the inherent goodness of man. I still do. I believe that circumstances and situations often stultify that goodness. That's why I never, ever, felt at home amongst the witnesses, because they believe in the inherent badness of man. Thanks, Farkel for helping me with a little self-realisation there.

  That's it. I'm off now to play Abba's "I believe in angels".

  Englishman.