Jesus Christ was no Moses

by smiddy 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    Moses has a history of what 80+ years as a servant of Jehovah ? in one form or another .

    Moses wrote / penned the first five books of the Bible and went through many trials and tribulations in serving his God Jehovah in his long lifetime.Interacting with God at times.

    Jesus was born and nothing is recorded of him until he is a young adolescent child ? and very little about him.

    Then we are introduced to him when he is 30 years old and gets baptised ,and only then does he start his preaching .

    Does he start preaching to the world ? No ,he confines himself to preaching only to the Jews. (what about the rest of us ?)

    For three years he preaches only to the Jews ,mind you verbally he never writes anything down , I wonder why that is if he was sent to be a saviour of the world.?

    The majority of things attributed to Jesus are by people that came after him and not what he said or did.

    Moses served his God Jehovah for at least 40 years and acheived a lot in that time and wrote five books of the Bible.

    Jesus ? preached for 3 years to a small group of jewish people under Roman rule ,never writing anything down for the benefit of the jewish community he preached to let alone the human race he is supposed to save as a human sacrifice on their behalf.?

    And Jesus is supposed to be the greater Moses ? Who is kidding who here .

    And what is more importantly what has he done since being installed as King in 1914 ?

  • jonahstourguide
    jonahstourguide

    I really enjoy your posts and the logical development you employ. I would only add a very significant point.

    By my calculations i rekon he would have worn out at least 6 pairs of sandals if not more based on a mate of mine that walked hundreds of kilometres in thongs and knew they were good for 500 k's. So I rekon leather should double that....... I need a scripture . Mate, I'm with you on this. It don't make sense.

    You are the kind of bloke that sharing a beer with would transcend the piffle that is thrust upon those of us in the process of slip sliding away.

    Thank you

    jtg

  • prologos
    prologos

    Did he not spend a couple of nights in the Samaritan city of the lady at the well as well?but: he out-miracled Moses, in that one's place he could have walked the Israelites across the Red Sea, brought forth wine from the rock, ==

  • scratchme1010
    scratchme1010

    Moses served his God Jehovah for at least 40 years and acheived a lot in that time and wrote five books of the Bible.

    Jesus ? preached for 3 years to a small group of jewish people under Roman rule ,never writing anything down for the benefit of the jewish community he preached to let alone the human race he is supposed to save as a human sacrifice on their behalf.?

    And Jesus is supposed to be the greater Moses ? Who is kidding who here .

    I didn't know there was a competition over who doe what and how much.


  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    I gotta say, I'm glad Jesus wasn't Moses.

    Jesus didn't stone anyone to death, he didn't massacre men, women and children and take their land, he didn't kill for his religion.

    The history of Christianity is bad, but think how worse it would be if Jesus advocated violence.

    And what is more importantly what has he done since being installed as King in 1914? - he's probably been sitting on a cloud, chilling out and checking out all the fit angels.

    And that's ok with me.

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    It's my understanding Jesus came to earth to set people straight on how to worship God. That love for one another was to be placed before the rules that were taking over during the time of Jesus.That he was there to preach the washing away of sins for all of mankind in his act of death and resurrection.

    That the Mosaic rules were not to be followed as the rule of God, as a means to salvation. Love for one another, instead, were to be followed.

    That alone is the greater of the two in my opinion.

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    Smiddy has made some good points. As a Jew I greatly appreciate them, and I think they need to be heard and considered with some more study by those who often try to convince Jews that they are lost and doomed to burn forever in hell for not accepting Jesus as Messiah.

    However, as a Jew myself, I think it only fair to point out a few things about Jesus that we should all take into account:

    • Jesus preached from one to three years (depending on the way you read the Scriptures). For a person to be raised to "God-hood" after such a short time is quite impressive. Moses was around much longer, millions more followed him during Moses' lifetime than followed Jesus during Jesus' lifetime, and Moses was never raised to "God-status" like Jesus has been. Moses, by this test, isn't as impressive as Jesus.
    • Details about Jesus were not only preserved and spread by his followers. Because the ministry of Jesus had so much impact, contemporary Jews had to engage in quite of bit polemic efforts to counter the claims about him. Whether or not the stories about Jesus were just that, stories, the historical person of Jesus of Nazareth started something that even disbelievers had to deal with on a notable level.
    • The idea that Jesus has been King since 1914 is limited to Jehovah's Witnesses, and then only the Jehovah's Witnesses who have been associated with the Watchtower since somewhere around the 1940s. The original date for this "invisible installment" is 1874. The rest of Christianity saw him as king from the time of his birth, which the feast of Epiphany (January 6 on the Christian calendar) annually marks (the visit of the Magi). The idea is that Jesus introduced the nations (Gentiles) to the teachings of God in a way nobody before him ever has, and in some ways this is true. By means of getting a large portion of the world to follow his teachings, one could say his "rule" has been an effective one on some level for the past 2000. More people follow his teachings than Moses (that is to say there are more Christians than Jews).

    How did someone who preached only a few years to a few people get so famous and end up having so much control through his teachings in so little time? Moses has been preached in synagogues scattered via the Diaspora since Babylon fell, and few have been attracted to worship the God of Abraham over the generations that followed. Here comes one Jew who preaches for a short time and BLAM, suddenly every Gentile wants to worship the God of Abraham--and they want to do it the Jesus-way, not the Moses-way. How does that happen and why?

    There is a movement within Judaism that has recently reclaimed Jesus as one of the great Jewish Sages. As the recent Orthodox Rabbinic Statement on Christianity and works by Jewish scholars such as Amy-Jill Levine demonstrate, the reason many Jews did not accept Jesus as Messiah have had less to do with Jesus as it has to do with Gentile Christians demanding the erasure of Jewish culture in the process. So over the years Jews have often equated the name "Jesus" with attempts to destroy all things Jewish. The various pogroms, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Holocaust did a lot to solidify this view unfortunately.

    And while Jews are not running in hoards to claim they have found the Messiah in Jesus, it is also not true that Jesus remains on the wayside as much as he did in the past in Jewry. Excluding the Messianic Jews (which is an Fundamentalist Christian movement), there are many Jewish Christians. Groups like the Association of Hebrew Catholics exist that contain official members of Christian denominations that preserve their culture while claiming Jesus as Messiah. Countless interfaith families exist in which a Jewish-Christianity has formed (and celebrations such as "Chrismukkah" have arisen), and research has shown that most Jews, especially members of the post-denominational movement, believe one can believe in Jesus as Messiah and still remain fully Jewish. Thus hatred for Jesus is slowly on the wane in the Jewish world, the same as hatred for the Jews as people who won't accept Jesus as Messiah is diminishing in the Christian world.

    @LoveUNiHateExams--One also needs to consider that the battles spoken of the Hebrew Scriptures may never have taken place. Even Jews understand these narratives to be legendary retellings of our history and not our literal history. For instance, when we celebrate Passover using the official Seder text, the Haggadah, Moses is not even mentioned once. However, it is well established that Jesus' followers have killed, and massacred men, women, and children (especially Jews) in the name of Christ. Jesus may not have killed for his religion, but the past 2000 years of Christianity shows that Jesus' followers have. Sometimes you can only judge the teacher by the way the pupils act.

    @nonjwspouse--It is not taught, even in the New Testament, that the Mosaic Law was ever believed to be a rule to be followed as a means of salvation. That idea came after the Reformation, when arguments between Catholics and Luther became simplified into polemic attacks between the two Christian parties. Catholics were stereotyped as being "Pharisees" who promoted a religion of "works equal salvation." From this the epistles received a hermeneutic approach which implied that Paul was claiming that the Jews followed the Mosaic Law as a means for salvation.

    And Jesus' teaching that "love" is to be followed is actually based on Mosaic Law, and Jewish religion or so Jesus himself said. (Matthew 22:36-40) By teaching "love" Jesus was teaching Torah, not something new.--Matthew 5:17-19.

  • prologos
    prologos
    The rest of Christianity saw him as king from the time of his birth, which the feast of Epiphany (January 6 on the Christian calendar) annually marks (the visit of the Magi)

    David Jay, thank you, a really great, informative t read.

    re: the above point: consider Col. 1:13. --" transplanted us into the kingdom of the son of his love. Paul considered the kingdom to exist then, -- prior to 1914.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    Moses personal influence over the Jews extended to a few generations in his lifetime..And his writings and influence extended to far more generations for many Centuries to come.

    Jesus personal influence over the Jews was confined to the one generation he witnessed to . Jesus , of himself can take no credit for his popularity for anything he published ,because he didnt publish anything.

    And he only preached to a select few and he never wrote anything down for the Jews or anybody else for prosperity.

    Jesus Christ never published anything in behalf of any other nationality or group whether they be women or slaves .His primary concern was for the Jews of his generation.

    It is the people who came to be his followers that exalted Jesus to the prominence that we find him to be today .

  • anointed1
    anointed1

    Yet there is an interesting similarity

    Moses performed many miracles, yet people did not change (except Joshua and Caleb) because of which God abandoned them in the desert.

    Jesus too performed many miracles—including resurrection, yet none of the recipients came for his support nor for preaching after his death.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit