So according to the bible, "believing" is enough to have everlasting life.

by NikL 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • NikL
    NikL

    I am certain this has been brought up many times before.

    According to John 6...

    44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him,+ and I will resurrect him on the last day.+ 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah.+ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned comes to me. 46 Not that any man has seen the Father,+ except the one who is from God; this one has seen the Father.+ 47 Most truly I say to you, whoever believes has everlasting life.+

    The word translated "believe" in verse 47 is πιστεύων

    • 47 ἀμὴν Amen ἀμὴν amen λέγω I am saying ὑμῖν, to YOU, ὁ the (one) πιστεύων believing ἔχει is having ζωὴν life αἰώνιον. everlasting.

    Yet the NWT translates the same word differently on a much more famous scripture which we all know...

    • 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son,+ so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.+

    • 16 Οὕτως Thus γὰρ for ἠγάπησεν loved ὁ the θεὸς God τὸν the κόσμον world ὥστε as-and τὸν the υἱὸν Son τὸν the μονογενῆ only-begotten ἔδωκεν, he gave, ἵνα in order that πᾶς everyone ὁ the πιστεύων believing εἰς into αὐτὸν him μὴ not ἀπόληται might be destroyed ἀλλὰ but ἔχῃ may have ζωὴν life αἰώνιον. everlasting.

    Faith and believing are not the same thing and it's not even what they're own interlinear says!

    I am no student of Greek but the scriptures seem to be pretty clear.

    Whoever believes is eligible for everlasting life.

  • sir82
    sir82

    "Believe" means "believe" except in the instances where the WTS has determined that it means something else.

    There are lots of similar examples for other words.

  • Saethydd
    Saethydd

    The Bible also says that "Faith without works is dead" so this is one of those cases were the Bible "clearly doesn't contradict itself."

  • Bungi Bill
    Bungi Bill

    Particularly back in the days when the WTS set very definite standards for what contituted a "Regular Publisher", we were all led to believe that unless one "reported" each month :

    - 10 hours of Field Service,

    - the "placement" 12 magazines,

    - a certain minimum of "back calls"

    - and the conducting of at least one Bible Study

    .... then we could safey assume we were all done for.

    They certainly read much into the expression "Believe in Jesus Christ"!

  • NikL
    NikL

    The Bible also says that "Faith without works is dead"

    And those works are?

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    Actually no.

    The Greek words translated "faith" and "believe" in the New Testament come from the Greek pistis. The Greek term is equivalent to the Hebrew word 'emunah.

    These words do not refer to a mental assent or acknowledgement of a claim, a creed, or to credulity. Rather they signify a type of behavior or response. The Jehovah's Witnesses are not very far off in their offering of the term "exercise faith" in the NWT. It is merely redundant however.

    The words pistis and 'emunah mean "faithfulness." They can also be rendered as "trust" and even "loyalty" in some instances.

    Originally with the New Testament writers being Jewish (except for Luke), the terminology never meant to have mere "belief" in a premise or teaching, as it does now where Christians are asked to guard against doubting lest they lose their mental grasp of a stand or theological view. While the Church Fathers only slightly began to give the meaning of "assent to a creed or doctrine" to pistis in the early church, it would be the Reformation that would give new meaning to the terms, especially as they appear in Pauline writings, notably that of Romans more than anywhere else.

    But in reality the terms refer to walking according to a set type of behavior as an expression of loyalty, to a concept yes, but not merely the mental grasping or believing aspect that is generally understood today. The original meanings can greatly alter the text if read directly from the Greek.

    For instance, Matthew 17:20 is now meaningless due to the current view of the word "faith." The verse reads in the NRSV: "Truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you."

    Because people think the word "faith" means "belief" this is generally applied as merely asking God for help and sitting back, waiting for God to do something. Yet the word pistis is not that static at all. A more precise way to render this verse would be: "If you were as faithful as a mustard seed, should you tell this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' it will move. Thus nothing will be impossible for you."

    Mustard in Israel is notorious for overgrowing wildly, taking over the land where other crops and vegetation lives, choking the life out of them, and taking their place. There were thus laws in ancient Israel regarding restrictions on how and where it could and could not be planted because of this plant's behavior.

    The text in Matthew 17:20 does not have the Greek word "size" in it at all. Because of how the Reformation has changed Christian views on pistis, it is now read as if the context is implying the "size" of a mustard seed, to read the text as if it saying that if you have even a little amount of "mental assent" or "belief" in something, God will make it happen for you.

    Read the other way around the words of Jesus mean that he didn't expect his disciples to just sit around after praying for something to happen. Like the mustard seed, they would act faithfully in their resolve and take over the situation for themselves. If you want the mountain to move, you don't sit by and wait for God to do it. You start pushing on the mountain. Jesus is saying that God will only help you out if you start pushing.

    This fits in with the Jewish teaching: "Pray as if everything depends upon God, but act as if everything depends upon you."

    This is also why Judaism is said to be "practiced" while Christianity is "believed." Some practicing Jews are atheist, and myself, even though I consider myself to be theist cannot honestly reduce my response to the concept of God to the term "belief." I don't subscribe to the notion of belief in doctrines, a common stand among Jews.

    But one can right say that according to the belief of some, mostly Christians, it is all about having "belief." At the same time one cannot say that this stand is immediately taken from Scripture. It's more theology than anything else because membership in Christian movements often demand adherents to mentally assent to a creed or a theology. Most Christian movements will expel members that refuse to mentally assent or believe in certain things too, even though almost all of these concepts are supposed to be transcendent in nature.

  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    The Bible also says that "Faith without works is dead" so this is one of those cases were the Bible "clearly doesn't contradict itself."

    The Bible does say "faith without works is dead" but to most people, the works that faith in Jesus sacrafice produces are evident by how one conducts their life and in the way they treat others.

    For JW's of course, one cannot have a relationship with Jesus or God with out the Governing Body intervening. They decide what works JW's must perform in order to demonstrate to men how faithful they are. The Governing Body decides how many meetings and assemblies will be held, what literature must be"placed" and what Bible texts you will think about each month. Those who follow the program are rewarded with accolades from ones peers, special "privileges" and position within the congregation and the virtuous feeling of being more deserving of everlasting life than anyone else on the planet.

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    @NikL

    The Greek word translated "works" means "accomplishments." It is the same word used to describe the product of an artist and that produced by someone in your employ, like a dressmaker you hire to make a dress.

    James 2:17 thus reads: "Faithfulness that accomplishes nothing is itself dead." (Or better yet, "is a lifeless corpse.")

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    David_Jay,

    I like your response that "belief" does not equate with "mental assent" but that it involves a total change in a person's life and outlook.

    I would like to add that the community that wrote John's Gospel focused on the incarnation, the revealing of God's nature through the person Jesus. The Gospel starts off with a cosmic "bang", a revealing of God through his Word, personified in Jesus. In the Gospel all action related to salvation is driven by and originates with God. Man can accept or reject, and those who accept change their lives - they now respond ("believe") and they are now already in receipt of eternal life.

    For this reason, the focus in John and the Epistles is with the life of Jesus, not with the death or resurrection. There is no ceremony related to Jesus' death in John (either baptism or "memorial meal") as it is with Paul. His focus lay with the death and resurrection, so he had the cultic ceremonies that related to Jesus' death and resurrection.

    I sometimes wonder whether Paul HAD to vociferously state that there was no other Gospel than the one he was preaching because of communities such as the Johannines, who were not concerned with Jesus' death in terms of salvation.

    My draft thoughts on John are at:

    http://www.jwstudies.com/The_experiences_and_writings_of_the_Johannine_Community.pdf

    Doug

    PS. I am in no way saying that I agree with either Paul or John. I am simply providng my analysis of what they were telling their local communities.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    The gospel incorporates two things; “something to believe and someone to receive. Biblically speaking, the gospel hinges on both believing and receiving.

    The apostle John brings this out in the beginning of his gospel, (chapter 1: verses 11 and 12), when he says about Jesus:


    He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to be made children of God., even to them that believe on his name.

    Believing and receiving ...changes everything; it changes our status before God. We are given a new identity. Our names are written in heaven.

    But not everyone received Jesus “His own received him not.”

    We might ask, What made some ready to receive and others not ready to receive? What was the difference?


    Those who received Christ recognized 2 critical things:

    1. they recognized who they were

    2. they recognized who Jesus was.

    First - What did they recognize about themselves?

    They recognized that they were debtors. We are all debtors aren't we. And our debt is ever increasing. We have all sinned; we have all fallen short of the glory of God. We can't undo what we have done in the past - or make up for our present condition, our cover our future failures.

    Those who received Jesus back then recognized who they were; they recognized their spiritual poverty; they were blessed because they knew they needed a Saviour. They knew they couldn't make their sins go away. They knew their condition was hopeless … unless God did something for them. So they knew who they were … but they also knew who to turn to. ….because they recognized who Jesus was.


    Specifically, and unlike Jehovah's Witnesses, they believed the apostles witness...as John attests to... again in the very first chapter of his gospel

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Those who received Jesus, believed he was divine; They knew he was holy. They also believed the witness of John the Baptist: “Behold the lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world.” They believed that Jesus' death on the cross was for them, not for himself. He was sinless. And they believed that on the cross he was voluntarily paying their debt in full for time and eternity.

    Finally, those who received Jesus back then, knew he was alive. No one can receive a dead person. Dead people cannot save. They knew Jesus had risen from the dead, that he had conquered death, and therefore was capable of Saving, of forgiving, of granting eternal life to every believer....

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