Why did Rutherford later "hate"(?) Jews and when did he begin to write against Jews? One knows that Russels wrote in some books full of glorification for Zionism when he understood Zionism and resettling of the holy land as prophetic fullfillments that had to happen in the last days.
Arrival of War in 1914 a Shocking Development
by berrygerry 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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TheWonderofYou
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TD
Perhaps a basic difference in personality between the two men? --Both men were kooks, albeit in different ways.
Russell cobbled together the Bible Student movement from a patchwork of ideas he borrowed from others; Barbour's 1914 prediction being only one of them. His brand of Christianity was consequently pretty inclusive.
Rutherford transformed the Bible Student movement into the apocalyptic cult we know today and his brand of Christianity was therefore extremely exclusive
Russell's vision of Armageddon was a gradually worsening struggle between capital and labor, which would cause the collapse of all human governments. Bringing order out of this chaos and essentially rescuing Mankind from itself would be the millennial reign of Christ.
Rutherford's vision of Armageddon was the mass slaughter of everyone who didn't agree with him. --Big difference.
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Wayward
From the history books I've read, war wasn't completely unexpected. Tensions between the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the rest of Europe had been building for years before World War I began. No one expected it to begin at precisely the time it did, but the murder of Archduke Ferdinand and his wife was the match that set the powder keg off. It would have happened sooner or later anyway. If war had come in 1908 or 1920, the JWs would have gone back and edited their prophecies accordingly. Its what they do. When something doesn't work out, they say "Oh, you misunderstood us. We didn't mean that at all!"
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OrphanCrow
Wonder: Why did Rutherford later "hate"(?) Jews and when did he begin to write against Jews? One knows that Russels wrote in some books full of glorification for Zionism when he understood Zionism and resettling of the holy land as prophetic fullfillments that had to happen in the last days.
The years between the predicted date of 1925 and the beginning of Rutherford's new religion in 1931, the JWs, were years that saw over 75% of members leave the Bible Students.
Rutherford re-grouped, re-groomed financiers, and re-established his struggling publishing empire. His political alliances changed as his financial needs demanded it.
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TheWonderofYou
OrphanCrow,
so who was it or where was it that I read about good relationships to Israel e.g. in the sector of medicine? When did that start. Much later. Or was always a connection. hmm.
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Referring to the OP ------ WHAT WAS SO SHOCKING about 1914
Contempory witness Frederick William Franz ( 1893-1992) the later president of WT was a young biblestudent in 1914.
In a lecture that he gave at bethel about the history of gods people in the 1980s he spoke in his own words and with the language of the biblestudents they used about 1914 about how they understood the happenings and what should happen in the year 1914 as well and this talk gives a good impression about how the biblestudents grasped this year and how they interpreted the happenings.
1913
„We were awaiting the MANIFESTATION OF JEHOVAH GOD IN 1914“ and the end of the appointed times of the gentiles.
As he awaited that the world outside would be destroyed and a worldy education and getting a job outside in the world would have made no sense for him he ended his academic career.
1914
A „WORLD WITNESS“ should be accomplished before the final end of things should come (note: not after 1914 but before)
an so it was!!! (selffulfilled prophecy was introduced by Russel as the new preaching campain:)
January 1914: the means of worldwide witness was introduced: the Display Photodrama of Creation
(this display of a slideshow was really seen as sufficient to be the final worldwide witness before the end)
we were awaiting the GLORIFICATION OF THE CHURCH IN 1914 (the anointed one were called church, or even Christ or brothers of christ back then)
in that year we held a couple of conventions one at COLUMBUS, OHIO.
Up till that time the year 1914 had set in all PEACEABLY and it seemed that it was VERY UNLIKELY that the times of the gentiles should end that year.
We came into the month of June and we celebrated our convention at Columbus Ohio during that month and it was while we were there that THE SHOT WAS FIRED, THAT WAS HEARED AROUND THE WORLD (Fullfillment in June? 28.6.1914)
It was on 28.6.1914 that archduke Ferdinand of Austria was assassinated by a Serbian.
Next morning the NEWS BROKE AROUND THE WHOLE WORLD
AND WE THERE at the Columbus convention said „AHA, THERE IT IS; WE WERE RIGHT“, because just 1 month later Juli 28, 1914 World war one broke out and more and more NATIONS GOT INVOLVED.
Well October the first came, and I recall how the bethel family was gathered for the morning meal and down comes Brother Russel and before taking his place at the head of the table he stopped, he clapped his hands to get the attention of the whole family and he quoted words from a song that we had in our old songbooks „The gentile times have ended for the kings have had there day“.
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So it was merely the impressions of the biblestudents themselves, their PERCEPTION of the events ... but for them that was of most importance... not history books that would be written later or political analysis of that time.
No political analysis of the events was behind the biblestudenst hope and awaiting but bibleprophecy, a certain own PERCEPITON that the world was 1914 all peacably until summer 1914, a war was FOR THEM unlikely (their perception) and that only after the shot, the news and after all nations got involved that was seen as acknowledgment or as sign(?) ----- There it is ---
that the end of the system would come certainly and very soon now in Fall 1914.
(note that the biblestudenst were involved in the preaching work with the photodrama and had for them the time before Juni 1914 was peacefully and silent) ---
But they awaited something to happen...wars certainly and tribulation....and something REALLY happened although accidently (so may we understand it today) but for them it was a very dramatic experience of the truth of gods word, since the whole world began to destroy itself.
..... thats how the biblestudents percepted what happend .
Awaiting - preaching - shot- news- nations involved - world in tribulation,
russel said the time of the nations are fulfilled. For Russel it was the acknowledgment that the Kings have had their day and now Christ Jesus was king.
That is the reason why the date 1914 remained so long very important for J.W.s, perhaps a factor was also that the shot happend during the convention at Columbus
P.S.
The biblical terms „end of system of hings“ = Harmagedon = return of christ = coming of Christ = tribulation should have all happend in 1914, as only one event after the end the awaited kingdom of christ on earth should start after 1914. So there was little time for a worldwide tribulation before 1914 if up to june there was no sign at all.
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TheWonderofYou
But to come back to the subject ..... arrival of war in 1914....
I also dont know if they in 1914 preached a coming BIG WAR (that's unsure ) or generally preached a coming tribulation or if they simply preached the good news and the END of the system of things.(thats sure). I should read the sermons of him.
How would it have been unlikely for them that a war would break out if they would have preached a coming big war? hmmm
Read what Russel wrote 1914 and a great war for the commercial premacy!!!
about "a present great war" or "present war for the COMMERCIAL premacy" " leading to Armageddon of revolution and Anarchy". (not of innihilation of all unbelievers!)
Was thus for Russel and biblestudents Armageddon somehow a symbolic climax and not a real war of the nations, and therefore a war was not implicitly awaited at all?
Russel says in the last paragraph that Armageddon would be when christ brings everyone worldwide to a REPENTANCE in their hearts.
How the last paragraph surprises me! Armageddon is not innihilation but worldwide repentance, the message of LOVE, and this from the mouth of Brother RUSSEL, the so called first J.W.!!!
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prologos
whatever happened to the kingdom that was already established, existed long before 1914? Col 1:13 "-- transferred us into the kingdom of his Son's love--"?
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OrphanCrow
Rutherford was a Democrat in his early days:
http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com/rutherford.html
An unsuccessful Democrat. In true Rutherford fashion, he turned on socialism and took an oppositional stance to his former friends, now turned enemies once he was rejected by the Democrats.
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TheWonderofYou
I tried to make an audiodrama with the talk of president Franz
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-K1FEkqn8RUSndxLW00MVpRSHc/view?usp=sharing
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steve2
With all due respect, B Knott, using this thread as an excuse to promote your views is seriously off topic. Why not start a separate thread where you can be more upfront about wishing to promote your religious views?