Humans only survive for 3-5 days without water...

by purrpurr 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Anders Andersen
    Anders Andersen
    I believe the evidence is overwhelming concerning the accuracy of the accounts about Israel.....and are still proving themselves true.
    For instance:

    I don't see how the examples you present have any bearing on whether the Exodus is myth or history?

    Actual historical evidence appears to show that Israelites were never enslaved in and rescued from Egypt; they evolved together with (other) Canaanite people. See for some pointers.

    If we're discussing the Exodus, it would be good to present evidence regarding the Exodus.

    As for prophecies regarding Jerusalem/Israel: there are so many prophecies written down about both their destruction and rebuilding them, that regardless the actual situation some Bible verses can be interpreted as a fulfilled prophecy.
    If tomorrow someone completely nukes Israel you will come up with verses like Ezekiel 33:28 and Deut. 28:45. Either way, you'll always claim that the Bible can be trusted.

    But, to each their own. It's not my cuppa...

  • krismalone

    The old testament God sure likes to play games with his human worshippers. He likes to torture them physically and psychologically.

    * He places a forbidden tree in eden to see if they love him. When they eat the red juicy apple, all hell breaks loose.

    * All descendants from the first couple are cursed to die because mommy and daddy ate a juicy red apple.

    * Women are cursed to be in submission to their husbands and are to feel intense pain when giving birth.

    * He asks Abraham to kill his son to see if he loves him.

    * He orders the killing of nations that worship foreign gods. How is that their fault? He chose the Israelites and not other nations so how are they deserving of genocide?

    * He orders the kidnapping and rape of virgins (Deut chaps 20-22).

    These examples are the tip of the iceberg.

    The OT God is comparable to abusive father who doesn't allow his kids to give their opinion and who beats the s**t out of them for not obeying his abusive, inhumane request and for daring to think for themselves. All human rights and dignity are denied to those in his household. The Watchtower Corporation has mirrored that same mentality on its members.

    The law is the only thing stopping the Watchtower from directly executing those who don't obey them and question their authority.

    Granted this God of the OT is a product of imagination and thank goodness he doesn't exist. The NT God (Jesus) is the Polar opposite of the latter. Too bad never existed as well.

  • Perry

    days of future,

    That is very true. God could have frozen the Egyptians, allowed the Israelites to walk away, and then unfrozen the Egyptians afterward.

    However, my impression of the history of God dealing with people is that he places a premium on two things -

    1. Free Will

    2. Trust

    It seems like he does things in a way that attempts to respect free will and foster trust in him when possible. The 10 plagues seem to accomplish those two things. The plagues got progressively more intense and Pharaoh should have let them go after any one of them. But, he defied God in the face of overwhelming evidence of his power...even to the point that he and his army were required to drown in the Red Sea to stop their abuse.

    The Israelites, on the other side of the coin, were just about as obstinate as Pharaoh. They should have been able to fully trust the Lord after all this. They didn't. It took a long time in the wilderness to get them to even trust God a little bit.

    Both accounts aptly picture the depravity of man and his (near total?) inability to relate to God and to trust him. This is why he eventually became a man in the person of Jesus Christ so that we could relate to him better.

    The Ipuwer Papyrus is an ancient Egyptian document that corroborates some of the plagues leading up to the Exodus.

    kris malone,

    You recite a number of common objections and raise good questions. All of these have been gone over in detail many times on this forum over the past 19 years I've been here.

    The best sources I've found for getting an accurate ancient picture are:



  • purrpurr

    Perry. An important point you're forgetting is that pharoah multiple times agreed to let the israelites go but god changed his mind for him and hardened his heart. Effectively pharoah was being controlled like a puppet just so god could show off.

    The God of the ot is not morally acceptable by any standard that isn't uneducated superstitious bronze age

  • Perry


    Here's an interesting take related in the Jerusalem Post:

    "Rashi notes that the process of increasing punishments was necessary to demonstrate God’s power – not only to the Egyptians, but to the Jews. He notes that during the first five plagues, Pharaoh himself was responsible for his hardening heart.

    In addition, Pharaoh’s heart was “strengthened.” (Exodus 7:13) and then became “heavy.” (Exodus 7:14) Why does the Torah use three different words to describe what amounts to a single description of his stubborn obstinacy? We will answer this shortly.

    Rambam, Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon, (Mishne Torah, Hilchot Teshuva) insists that everyone has free will; one can choose to do good, or evil. The ability to choose freely defines us as human beings; our choices define us as individuals. Freedom to choose is an essential and inherent right, but it is not absolute; there are consequences to actions.

    This explains why three different words are used to describe Pharaoh’s heart. He changes his mind, perhaps from lack of awareness and fear of losing a valuable commodity. It’s understandable, given his position. That is what is meant by “hardening,” and “heavy.” He refuses to change, even though he recognizes God’s existence. But then he becomes recalcitrant and arrogant – which is described as “his heart was strengthened.”

    The key to understanding this psychological debilitation – and what Torah teaches – is Pharaoh’s lack of self-criticism. The ability to choose, to exercise free will without honest self-evaluation and introspection, is self-destructive and destructive to others. In Pharaoh’s case, he led his army and his nation to disaster."

    My thoughts: Perhaps after 5 times that Pharaoh changed his mind, God finally gave him the complete separation from common sense he sought so Pharoah could completely indulge his self-centeredness? If so, this allowed for greater displays of protection for the Israelites that should have formed a larger basis of trust for them.

    The God of the ot is not morally acceptable by any standard

    Well, I think that billions of people would disagree with that statement. It is the basis of our judicial courts and all of judeo-christian western culture.... the greatest and freest culture ever seen on earth.

  • Corney

    Surprised no one here remembered about another cruel and narcissistic god of people in a desert.

    "Do not, my friends, become addicted to water, or it will take hold of you and you will resent its absence!"

    (Sorry, I couldn't resist)

  • Finkelstein

    The bible is full of fictional mythological Bullshit and why shouldn't it be it was written thousands of years ago by ignorant uneducated, unacknowledged ancients.

    Human ignorance is an indefensible fact.

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic

    This once again shows what a weak second tier desert god Yaweh is. He's a total failure. He couldn't stop his people from being enslaved by the Egyptians. Couldn't negotiate their release from Pharaoh despite supposedly being omnipotent and sending plagues. Couldn't get the "promised land" cleared of inhabitants before the Israelites scouted the land. And completely forgot to give the Israelite water for days on end.

    Yaweh really needs to get out of the God business. He's not a leader. He's a incompetent bumbling oaf that gets all those who follow him killed (if he doesn't kill them himself).

  • FedUpJW
    1. Free Will...?

    If I were married and told my wife each and every time I beat her for doing something "wrong" that I loved her, and she had the "free will" to leave me if she did not like the beatings...but that IF she left me I would kill her how the hell is that "free will"?

  • days of future passed
    days of future passed

    Perry - So god used Pharaoh to build trust in the Israelites. If the Israelites weren't so stubborn and non trusting, Pharaoh wouldn't have suffered all of the plagues. So it was israelites fault that the servants and animals of pharaoh as well as the firstborns, died. Makes sense.

    Just for fun

    Related image

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