Humans only survive for 3-5 days without water...

by purrpurr 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • purrpurr
    purrpurr

    And yet today's watchtower and indeed the bible condemns the Israelites for moaning about having no water! It's never occurred to me how unjust this is! And how could a so called loving god not provide a basic human need?!

    Oh and this stupid thing of Moses's word choice of "we" rather than say "god" seriously! ? One word slip in the heat of the moment was enough to ban him from the promised land? After he had done so much and been through so much for his god and his god d isowns him after one slip up!

  • Perry
    Perry

    Hi purrpurr,

    You post triggered a lot of thoughts for me.

    It does seem like something unusual was going on concerning the water. Why didn't God supply a steady water source so that they (the Israelites) wouldn't fret? After all, their clothes had some sort of ongoing blessing where they didn't wear out. Why a different treatment with the need for water?

    First of all, I think it is important to remember that the Israelites were in the wilderness because of their own choosing. They were in the situation that they were in because they were focusing on their seeming impossible obstacles, instead of God. They had the opportunity to enter the promised land, but ten of the 12 spies came back afraid, and without faith. They chose to not enter the promised Land. This is after the 10 plagues of Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea & the miraculous defeat of Pharoah. And especially important, it was after a covenanat relationship was mediated by Moses between the nation of Israel & God.

    The problem was that the Israelites were still thinking like a defeated, enslaved people. The people had been taken out of slavery, but the slavery had not yet been taken out of the people.

    The 40 years in the Wilderness was a training ground. Little by little they gained faith in God to the point when they came to the foot of the promised land a second time; They decided that they would take the land offered.

    The "problems" that were preventing them 40 years earlier, were not problems after all. The walls of Jericho?; they came tumbling down. The giants? - they are not even mentioned in the description of the takeover.

    Why the harsh treatment of Moses not being allowed to enter the Promised Land? Perhaps it is because when he took credit for giving the people water, it went against the very lesson that was having to be learned the hard way, over and over... every day for 40 years. If the people elevated Moses to the position of a life-giver, it would only prolong and already drawn-out ordeal concerning faith in God.

    It was for everyone's benefit that Moses be left behind. So that, now when they faced the enemy (without Moses) they could be sure that it was the faithfulness of God toward his people and not some sort of favor to Moses himself that ensured their success.

    What is particularly troubling about the Watchtower pointing to such examples of faith in the bible is the fact that the Watchtower has fooled people into rejecting the very covenant that God offers people as a basis for their personal success. Then, while the people are in a position OUTSIDE of a covenant relationship with God, they try to get people to waste their time (1.) waiting of Jehovah, (2) having faith in God's potential to act, (3.) serving a publishing corporation as a way of making peace with God.

    It is the height of all ignorance to put faith in God while at the same time actively and knowingly rejecting his agreement that he offers for membership into his family household. It is incredibly insulting.

    Warning from Hebrews:

    But Christ, when He came as a High Priest of the good things to come...by His own blood, He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption....

    But you have come to...the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,...24 and to Jesus, the Mediator of a new covenant; ...

    25 See that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused Him who spoke on earth, much less shall we escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven....

    How much more severe a punishment do you suppose he deserves, who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded the blood of the covenant that sanctified him to be a common thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

    The Watchtower treats the New Covenant as a "has been", unimportant to the lives of Jehovah's Witnesses.... done away with in 1914 etc. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect any grace of God under these conditions. Yet, many JW's spend their entire lives in slavery to an organization, choosing the wilderness instead of the promised land of freedom and sonship with God.

    John 1: 12 -

    Yet to all who received Him, He gave the power to become sons of God

    Ephesians 2 -

    For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, 9 not of works, so that no one should boast.

  • ttdtt
    ttdtt
    Well what do you want when people take Fairylales seriously.
  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    First of all, I think it is important to remember that the Israelites were in the wilderness because of their own choosing.

    Really... lets examine the facts. Their choices were 1) leave egypt or 2) witness the death of their first born. Some choice.


    They were in the situation that they were in because they were focusing on their seeming impossible obstacles, instead of God. They had the opportunity to enter the promised land, but ten of the 12 spies came back afraid, and without faith. They chose to not enter the promised Land. This is after the 10 plagues of Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea & the miraculous defeat of Pharoah.

    You would be excellent at debunking bible fairy tales. You just gave a really good explanation as to why the story is flawed.

    And especially important, it was aftera covenanat relationship was mediated by Moses between the nation of Israel & God.

    Really? Why is that “especially” important?


    The problem was that the Israelites were still thinking like a defeated, enslaved people. The people had been taken out of slavery, but the slavery had not yet been taken out of the people.

    hmmm.... could it be because their petty weak ass desert god left them in captivity for 400 years??? Do you THINK THAT may play into it????? What a joke. He leaves them for GENERATIONS in abject poverty and slavery but they are supposed to get over it in 30 days? Screw you and your terrible excuse making for a horrible fairy tale.

    Your a terrible PR agent for a terrible story.

  • Anders Andersen
    Anders Andersen

    The problem was that the Israelites were still thinking like a defeated, enslaved people.

    The people had been taken out of slavery, but the slavery had not yet been taken out of the people

    Guess what? According to their origin myth they were still enslaved. Their master Yahweh demanded all sorts of services and goods, unquestioning obedience, and would kill them if they ever wanted to get out under their slavery to him. The myth explicitly states that Yahweh is the owner.

    From one type of slavery into another. It's a good thing this while story is mythical and not historical.

  • stillin
    stillin

    Witnesses compare the GB to being a modern-day Moses. A leader of God's chosen people. It looks like the GB is following through quite well with all of the emphasis on themselves.

  • nowwhat?
    nowwhat?

    What's gets me about stories about Moses, uzziah, the children that got mauled by the bears is god could have just knocked them on their ass with a lightening bolt. Instead of killing them and it would have taught them and everyone a lesson just as well.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Hi Anders,

    The Israelites were in a national contractual relationship with the Almighty, and still are. They were allowed to violate the covenant over and over again. They usually ended up in slavery to some foreign worthless god and in slavery to some foreign power.

    True, many people like their slavery.... being content with basic needs like food, water, shelter and "medical" marijuana to help mitigate their poverty.

    The Israelites found themselves in slavery to the Egyptians through no fault of their own after Joseph died. There was no way they could have negotiated a release from such a strong world power. They were destined to disappear or be completely absorbed into that culture unless God himself intervened. They needed help in an impossible situation.... much like us.

    It took a lot of work on God's part to secure their release. Even then, it was not enough....blood had to be spilled to experience freedom. Freedom isn't free.

    I believe the evidence is overwhelming concerning the accuracy of the accounts about Israel.....and are still proving themselves true.

    For instance:

    In Zechariah 8:7-8, the prophet said God would bring the Jews back from the east and the west to their homeland (Israel) and that they would be able to live in the city of Jerusalem again. This prophecy has been fulfilled more than once. About 2600 years ago, Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and took many Jews as captives to Babylon.

    But many Jews later returned from Babylon. The Jews rebuilt Jerusalem but the city was destroyed about 1900 years ago by the Romans. The Romans killed more than 1 million Jews and forced many more into exile. The Jews did not have control of Jerusalem again until 1967 when the Jews recaptured the city during the Six Day War.

    Here is Zechariah 8:7-8

    This is what the Lord Almighty says: "I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west. I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God."

    Never in the history of the word has a people been driven from their homeland later to be restored in tact complete with their language except for Israel.

    Israel's deserts will become like the Garden of Eden

    Bible passage: Isaiah 51:3

    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC

    Fulfilled: Being fulfilled now

    In Isaiah 51:3, the prophet said that God will restore Israel and make it a paradise, like the garden of Eden. This foreshadows what is currently happening in Israel. The Jews have been irrigating, cultivating and reconditioning the land during much of the 1900s. Many of the country's swamps, which had been infested with malaria, have been converted into farmland. And water from the Sea of Galilee has been channeled through portions of the deserts, allowing some of the deserts to bloom. Much work remains, but parts of Israel are blooming again.

    Although it was described as a wasteland as recently as the late 1800s, Israel is now a food source for many countries. And at least 200 million of trees have been planted there during the past century.

    The fruit exports of Israel are impressive....19% increase just last year.

    There are dozens of fulfilled prophecies about Israel re-appearing in the last days. All powerful testimony to the faithfulness to the national contract mediated my Moses long ago. Completely unique in the annals of human history.

    By contrast, Jesus mediated a far superior contract toward those that would put faith in him. It is a personal contract as opposed to a national one. It is described as an adoption with all the rights, privileges and irrovocability that goes along with that. In Roman times, once a slave was adopted, they could NEVER have the adoption cancelled but were permanant heirs to the wealth of the Father.

    All of human history can be traced back to the Flood.

    Here's a fascinating look at world history. There is no such thing as pre-history or "prehistoric" in my opinion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcFwM4c_avM

  • days of future passed
    days of future passed

    purrpurr - Oh and this stupid thing of Moses's word choice of "we" rather than say "god" seriously! ? One word slip in the heat of the moment was enough to ban him from the promised land? After he had done so much and been through so much for his god and his god disowns him after one slip up!

    This is one of the reasons that JW's today, have a fear that all it would take is one mistake and they would be dead forever. My Jw coworker is very afraid that it will happen to her. I even thought that and I've heard others express it too. Yet, Hitler will be resurrected and all sorts of bad people that did whatever they wanted. That always bothered me.

    Perry - It took a lot of work on God's part to secure their release. Even then, it was not enough....blood had to be spilled to experience freedom. Freedom isn't free.

    Please, it took a lot of work? It isn't like god was a human and had to bribe people under the table or mastermind a coup. He didn't even have to do the ten plagues to prove that he was "better" than the gods of Egypt. After making the universe and life on earth, God could have simply made the Egyptians unable to move while the Israelites walked out. Bam. Shouldn't have God taken the high road and done it without bloodshed? Not only Egyptians were killed but animals too. But I guess a God that kills all the humans on earth with a flood with all of the poor animals, has to stick with his MO.


  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    It took a lot of work on God's part to secure their release. Even then, it was not enough.

    You. Are. An idiot. You denigrate the creator of heaven of and earth by suggesting that it took work for him to free his people? He can create the universe not free his people? Your a fool and blaspheming one at that.

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