Hi all , because I'm useless and can't be bothered studying, I need some rebuttals for the excuses given in this week's bs , (I love how the acronym matches its origin) my Uber dub father pleaded with me to study this week's book study as it addresses my issues with them being directed by Holy Spirit etc and how Jah reveals things progressively , problem is I know there's a great argument to put fwd with proper preparation but I'm onto my 2nd drink of the evening and can't be assed , please unload some smoking guns I can take with me tomorrow . . . Chur
This week's bs, bible study help
"New light never contradicts old light, but' adds to it." (WT 2/1881 P. 188)
The light grows brighter, but it doesn't blink on and off as so many WTS doctrines have...changing then reversing back to former positions.
Problems are that there no scriptures about things being revealed over time . There are also no scriptures that say they are the true religion. They may quote proverbs chapter 4 :18 about the light getting brighter but if you read the whole chapter what they say is crap.
Then they may quote Jeremiah I think we're it says there a people of his name something like that but again the name used there is Israel and it's an Old Testament scripture specifically meaning Israel because gods name is El. And there his people.
Welcome Nf ,elsewhere on this board is revealed how they admit in a latest WT ? that they are niether inspired nor infallible ,they make mistakes , so why would anybody in their right mind obey them at all let alone with a life and death matter.
good luck with convincing your dad.
Chur for the replies so far , smiddy I think the new 2017 WT admission is what he will come back to me with not ammo for me if u look at the study material , BTW I like all yr work , ie yr topics and posts
Paragraph 15 - "The disciples did not comprehend this vital point and later asked the resurrected Jesus: “Are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” Jesus, however, chose not to reveal any more details at that time." (Acts 1:6,7)
False! Jesus was not withholding the information until a later date, because he bluntly told them that such knowledge and information belonged only to the Father. Jesus himself didn't know - so how could he choose "not to reveal any more details?" (Matthew 24:36)
The org uses slimy, deceptive wording yet again, to mislead the sheep and conceal what the Bible really teaches!
Best wishes for your discussion.
The Bible Study in para 18 quotes from w1925 March 1st.
If we are to believe that quotation then we also need to read the rest of that article that the quotation was taken from and believe those things also:
- Jesus interprets his word to his people. (in which case why does it change so often?)
- The gentile times began in 606 B.C. (no longer taught)
- The Devil became god of the world when Israel was cast off (no longer taught)
- In 1914 the Devil no longer rules the world 'without interference' (no longer taught)
- The Lord came to his temple in 1914 (w07 12/15 now says that happened in 33C.E.)
- It speaks of a 'temple class', 'anointed class', and the 'saints'. (not taught today)
- The seven heads of the wild beast represents seven departments of Satans' organisation (not taught today)
- The tail which drew one third of the stars actually drew one third of earths leaders. (not taught today)
- Since 1878 the Devil has been watching Zion (not taught today)
- The birth of the child is the birth of the little flock (no longer strictly accurate)
- From 1878 Jesus was collecting his followers (huh?)
- Christ has been present since 1874 (wha?)
- Dan 12:1 'Michael will stand up' refers to 1914 (now is future)
- The events of Rev 12 are written in the wrong order (!)
- The woman fleeing to the wilderness occurred on 27th March 1919, the start of the 1260 days
- The disgorged flood was modernism and the League of Nations
- Mention of Russells 'Advertise' campaign in 1922. (All those advertised to are now dead)
- They are deep into the time of the end (same as today, 92 years later)
Paragraph 18 of the BS book says "Just as Jehovah progressively revealed truths about the kingdom leading up to 1914, he continues to do so in the time of the end".
This is false. The 'revealing of truths' already mentioned in the book relate to Jesus giving a little information to his apostles, then over time this increases in detail. It never revokes a previously held belief or flip flops between multiple meanings, which is what the WT have been doing for the last 130 years. This is evidence of the opposite of what they claim - they are not like the early apostles at all, but rather like every other Christian religion who change their teachings when they are no longer tenable due to the passage of time or some other reason (like the 'generation' teaching).
Para 19 says they are humble to make adjustments. It is not humble to know you are uninspired and have taught 100's of false teachings over a century or more, but still insist, on consequence of death, that you follow a blood, innoculation and donor policy that later changed after costing many lives.
Para 20 says we must accept all the constant changes, like the 1st century Christians did.
Again, false comparison. The 1st century Christians had witnessed miracles. They were being taught a consistent thing - the law was removed and the apostles had a new theology. There was no constant backward/forward/up/down flip flops in the 1st century, again showing the modern GB are not anything like the apostles. The paragraph mentions the letters from Paul were inspired. Are they trying to draw a mental conclusion that their changes are also inspired? Deceptive.
The apostles encouraged testing of things written so as to know when to accept and reject them. The GB will DF you if you test their false teachings and reject them.
Par 21 calls these changes 'refinements'. They are not refinements they are changes. Previous teachings are tossed out completely and replaced with something new.
Was this good use of the masters 'talent' by his servant, or was it a wicked and wasteful thing to do?
Par 21 says we now see more clearly. How can we be sure when we were previously told the old teachings were clearer? We have no basis to trust that they are correct today, any more than they were correct in the past.
How is it that some things that the churches teach were known to them before the WT taught the same thing?
How can it be clearer to teach the superior authorities are political, then swap that to being God and Christ, then back to being political again? Evidence of gods spirit or satans? Clearer or more confusing? Clarification or false teaching?
They use the word "humility" when they actually mean "blind obedience".
Ask your father if the billions of preaching hours and all the decades of teaching false/wrong things was good, and if all the 1,000's of printed and distributed publications that are now 'apostate' were worth printing.
Ask him what would happen if he thought one of the GB's teachings were wrong and publicly discussed it. Would the GB be humble and listen to this clarification? No, he'd be warned then df'd.
Show him -- g70 4/22 p. 8 Changes That Disturb People
"Yes, millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. Have you, too, felt discouragement or even despair because of what is happening in your church? A businessman in Colombia expressed the effect the changes have had on many."Tell me," he asked, "how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe 'new things.' How do I know the 'new things' will be the truth in five years?"
Since your father was baptised he has seen changes on when the end is coming, on blood, on 1914 and on the 'generation', seen reduced hours for pioneers, a different Faithful Slave definition, new donation arrangements, different assemblies, new headquarters, a different and prominent Governing Body, new videos, cartoons and online TV shows, a different ministry, new branding, every meeting changed, no TMS, shorter Sunday talks, no DO's, everything tablet based, different elder arrangement and appointments, no Kingdom Ministries, thinner and fewer magazines, different Kingdom Hall designs, new songs, new music and a different Bible.
Is he happy that the religion he accepted and was baptised into has now gone and been replaced, one brick at a time, with a different religion?
What's that proverb about dropping a frog into boiling water and it will jump out, but put it in a pan of cool water and bring it to the boil slowly to cook it. Your father is that frog.
The 1st century Christians had witnessed miracles. They were being taught a consistent thing - the law was removed and the apostles had a new theology. There was no constant backward/forward/up/down flip flops in the 1st century, again showing the modern GB are not anything like the apostles
Sorry to disagree because you are one of my favorite posters. We have nothing written by the original apostles , other than Paul, to back up your claim. From examining the new testament and other gospel not included in the canon, it's rather easy to conclude that "There was
noconstant backward/forward/up/down flip flops"
Funny how, despite the huge number of inconsistencies in the Bible, many still use it as an infallible reference.
I hate to be a debbie downer but there is NO reasoning with these people. We have tried. Unfortunately, they will label you as weak, you have no faith and label you an apostate. It is sad but true. I used to stress myself out by trying to make points with these people, to no avail. I go for a walk, enjoy a sunset or just enjoy time with my family. Much less stressful.
Ask him WHY would god ever give his people WRONG information? Why would he reveal something he knows is wrong?
Why did it take 100 Years to identify the FDS (the only important thing about 1914-1919? Would that not have been right from the beginning?
If its progressive - why did some many things go back and forth?