Does Believing in God Make You Dumb?
David_Jay - Might I suggest that you think again about your habit of repeatedly accusing others of thinking like JWs?
It is true that some posters have a limited understanding of other religions but others are well informed. Many of us have been part of non-JW religions as well.
The reference I made was to a different school of thought than the other "death of God" philosophers.
While Rubenstein definitely came after Neitzche, I am certain you learned that neither invented the phrase. It is a very ancient view in Judaism that God has been absent after creation. An old axiom from Judaism, pre-dating the Enlightenment is that God doesn't exist unless we make it so: "Pray as if everything depends on God, but act as if everything depends on you."
The Jewish culture, having invented the God of Abraham, also introduced the first to reject his existence, especially when Gentiles didn't worship or know about him. Such views occurred in the Second Temple era, before Christ.
The repeated suggestion that certain views are connected to Watchtower beliefs are meant to be limited to those persons who are either not out of the Witness system yet or still breaking free.
I directly mention the Witnesses in some instances because I don't want those particular views I am referencing at the time to be mistaken as applying to others of different denominations or schools of thought who idependent of the JWs may have a similar conviction. I don't think I have come across anyone here who directly supports the Watchtower views yet, so I don't see how anyone who could think these apply to themselves who are either not associated with or never have been one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
But if you don't like the way I have put things, then I guess I have to either change things or make it a bit clearer the next time around.
The study referenced in the OP is similar to many other very good studies that suggest, for large populations, there is a correlation to a strong negative correlation between IQ and religiosity (the higher one's IQ the less likely they are to be religious). This isn't anything new. Having said that, academic studies rarely draw conclusions that show direct correlations/cause and effect.
These studies show correlations. Of course there are intelligent and brilliant religious people and of course there are brain dead atheists (probably not but I'm saying that just to make a point). It should not come as a surprise. Let's put aside the evidence that IQ and religiosity show a negative correlation for a moment.
Let's focus on the very religious. Anyone who allows someone else to do their thinking and has given up all analytical rigor, swallowing the tepid confirmationally biased nonsense spewed by their leaders and relying on their feelings and beliefs for many years as do so many very religious people, is not using a vital muscle - their brain. It isn't any different than a couch potato. Unused muscles atrophy.
Look at the Dubs over the past few decades. Deep study and analysis, which was encouraged for a while, rose up and bit the Dark Lords square on their fat asses. To mitigate this they have dumbed down the cult, discouraged deep study and began appealing to emotions and feelings in order to keep the rank and file in line.
This isn't rocket science.
Bill Maher if any of you watch him said something interesting and I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like the following:
I will say that religious people tend to sleep easier at night when their head hits the pillow.
For most I would say this is pretty relevant. No matter your belief system death still sucks.
Of course I assume everyone here is college-educated with a degree and knows their IQ score and the name of their test they took?
I went to Rice, then studied at Florida State, and continued at Columbia (UTS) with a BA in Forensic Science and in Liturgy. On the WAIS-IV I scored at 132.
I believe in God. If believing in God makes you dumb then wouldn't it follow that all atheists here have even higher scores, better sheepskins, and far more successful careers and much higher salaries than me?
Where did you go to college, atheist or theist? What degrees do you have? Which IQ text did you take and what was your score? What do your answers say not only in regard to the original question but to the various answers here given? I think that would be a better gauge than anything else.
And you all think I'm an arrogant narcissist. Well, I probably am but look up just above me. I'm not worrhy.
So the Jehovah's Witnesses are to be criticized because they discourage higher learning.
Those who believe in God are to be criticized for being dumb.
And someone who was merely pointing out that we can use our own credentials (becuase I assumed most of us here have them) to devise a more precise formula to answer this thread's question is an "arrogant narcissist"?
I'm educated, so what? Practically everyone on here talks like they are, so I assumed as much. Damned am I if I agree with the Watchtower on the pitfalls of higher education and damned if I get a higher education, huh?
We are hypocrites if we criticize the Governing Body for its views on higher education when we turn around and insult those who have that education. How can we claim we are enlightened and critical thinkers if we don't ensure that our critical thinking is proper? Forensics, my major by the way, is critical analysis.
I leave this forum therefore to you good people and the likes of DJS.
David Ray, "I believe in God. If believing in God makes you dumb then wouldn't it follow that all atheists here have even higher scores, better sheepskins, and far more successful careers and much higher salaries than me? Where did you go to college, atheist or theist? What degrees do you have? Which IQ text did you take and what was your score? What do your answers say not only in regard to the original question but to the various answers here given? I think that would be a better gauge than anything else."
My, my, Princess. Such a fit pitch. Apparently Rice, FSU and Columbia didn't require you to take any Research or Statistics classes, nor complete a thesis - or you weren't paying attention during these typically semester long classes. If you were you would know that a population of ONE (you) is NOT a statistically valid sample. If you were paying attention on this site (I'm sensing a theme here), you would note that these studies were qualified as showing correlations over large populations and, in most cases, looked at data over multiple years and multiple countries.
There are many such studies, and they have been conducted by researchers and scientists with PhDs and extensive experience in these fields.That's all we have stated. There are obviously very intelligent and educated theists. If you want to see some of the studies, just ask. No one has insulted your education; we have insulted you. And a lot of us have degrees, advanced degrees and high IQs.
DJS; you say,
[Anyone who allows someone else to do their thinking and has given up all analytical rigor, swallowing the tepid conformationally biased nonsense spewed by their leaders and relying on their feelings and beliefs for many years as do so many very religious people, is not using a vital muscle - their brain. It isn't any different than a couch potato. Unused muscles atrophy.]
now now, your on here with the rest of us ...
david and djs is your J w showing? lol
Now you cant deny the crafty ability of the wt orgs evil salesmen, give then part credit for the grand scheme they have going on. masters of deception. and so who else are masters of deception? lots of groups, from govt to corporations to science.
that my dear takes an amount of skill, good or bad.
IMO, people who are religious, might have one of two purposes , to be viewed as good, and worthy of ‘gifts’ from the lord. or to view themselves and better than thou. or 'special' lol.
depends on he upbringing.
the short answer is no.
because if you take time studying a religious belief system, and it occupies all of your time,
you have no other space left in the day , or the brain for other more beneficial subjects.