Ok, there's been tons on this I know. But I HAD to look myself. Here's what I found and spent some time researching some of the companies. In my search I found in 2014 BOEING, LOCKHEED MARTIN & NORTHROP GRUMMAN which supports the military. I'd like to use this info for my mom, seems legit????
henrietta m riley
What are trying to say though? This seems to be a trust established by an individual, and the trust donates proceeds of the trust to the wtbts. The society don’t own anything in the trust, what point are you trying to make?
Yes I've always thought this argument was one of the weaker ones we have in our arsenal. I guess it depends on the dub. I know, or knew, some who would be horrified about this and would think they should refuse the proceeds.
Quite a few modern JWs would be very indifferent to this and not understand the fuss. Theocratic warfare ( anything for the cause) covers all evils in a cult.
I think it's simple:
In the Shepard The Flock book there are official reasons that
one can be disfellowshiped for:
- Employment violating Christian principles - km 9/76 p.6, km 2/74
- Working for any religious organization - ks91-E p.95
- Working in a gambling institution - ks91-E p.136
- Selling tobacco - ks91-E p.96
- Contract work at a military establishment
While contract work at a military establishment is Banned for a JW apparently the WTBTS receiving the profits is not.
Founded in the 70s, the trust´s sole purpose is to generate equity returns that, after deduction of treasury costs, flow 100% to the WTBTS. The trust is being managed and supervised by employees of the Comerica Bank in Detroit.
The trust is quasi "owned by itself". The capital is being lent to companies to work with, and they return a part of their earnings to the pot, and these gains are given to and accepted by the WTBTS.
This particular Trust is invested in companies that make products/ weapons for the military.
R rated movies and soft porn is associated with other companies that are in the Trusts holdings.
Sector: a.o. Armaments industry,
e.g. combat aircrafts, helicopters, missiles
End of Year Book Value:
Sector: u.a. Armaments industry,
e.g. military technology
Sector: Armaments industry,
e.g. combat aircrafts
NORTHROP GRUMMAN CORP.
Sector: Armaments industry, z.B.
e.g. Stealth Bomber B-2 Spirit, combat aircraftF-14 Surveillance Drone RQ-4A Global Hawk
TIME WARNER INCORP.
e.g. Soft porn, war and mystery movies (subsidiary Cinemax)
With the whole equity stake, the HMR Trust generated a net income of $ 696,897 (2015) as a General Support for the Watch Tower Society .
I totally disagree with this being a weak argument in the apostate arsenal. For starters, most elders or JWs don't really understand the forces at play so they could hardly argue back. With that said and in the interest of staying on the honest side, I believe the argument over this is not so much about who owns the fund, but rather the argument is over what would happen to you if you were the owner of that fund. If you were making good money out of it and it showed, someone would have questioned your faith over the portfolio of organizations that are included.
If you can be scolded over delivering sodas to a military based, then sure as hell the WT can be questioned over this even if they only get the crumbs that fall from the table. This BS of the "fund owns itself" is the actual weak argument. I am sure the WT is well aware of what is in it but choose to look the other way because they are covered by a legal grey area.
To conclude, I remember some guy on youtube who clarified that the conditions from the WT for donated trusts, is that the WT would own the asset after the passing of the donor. Now I understand the financial world can be complicated to summarize in one post but I will forever refer back to my previous statement... if you can get scolded for delivering sodas to a military base.....
But you wouldn’t get scolded for delivering sodas to a military base? If you set up a business selling military equipment you would, or a business whose sole or at least majority customer base is military then you probably would do. I you work uber eats that delivers to a base you definetly wouldn’t
This argument is a non-starter if you understand trusts. The WTBS has no control over what the trust owns, invests in, or how it disburses the funds. The only thing it could possibly do is send the checks back to the trust. You might make a case that by keeping the money, it is benefitting from defense industries, but I think their are much bigger fish to fry when looking for reasons to attack the WTBS.
Reminder: I'm a retired accountant.
Something to think about:
"How a Christian puts his money to work is for him to decide personally, just as how he works for a living is for him to decide. There is nothing contrary to Scriptural principles for him to let his money help him earn a livelihood. If he invests in stocks, no one should criticize him. He should, of course, be discreet about what stocks or bonds he buys. When he knows that a corporation is devoted entirely to manufacturing merchandise that is used for a morally wrong purpose, it would be improper for him to violate his conscience by investing in the stock of that company." - AWAKE! February 8, 1962 pg. 23
If it is wrong for an individual Christian to purchase stock in a company that is involved in questionable practices and accept the dividends and profits therefrom, would it not be equally wrong to accept said dividends and profits from the stocks if they were gifted to a religious corporation in the form of a trust?
Kramer.. if you read Franz book, there is a story there about a brother whom was forced to quit his driver job because part of his route included making deliveries to a military base
JefT... that the WT does not manage the fund directly doesn't mean they do not know what is in it.... again... what would they say if it was you at the receiving end of that account?
ST who knows about one anecdote, but there is no direction at all that says that should happen