Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Perry


    Jesus himself declared that he came to fulfill the Law, not to dilute or destroy it. (Mathew 5:17) KILLING AN INNOCENT PERSON IN A CRULEST MANNER to atone for the sins of others is in effect fighting sin with greater sin.

    Didn't Jesus say, "I lay down my life ....No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again."

    He also said: that no man hath greater love than this, that he lay down his life on behalf of his friends.

    No sin here that I can see. In fact, this unselfish "giving of ones life so that others can live" is usually one of the highpoints in Hollywood movies because it is an action that is universally recognized as the greatest expression of love that can be performed by humans ..... except when it comes to Jesus of course for heretics. Then it is a sin.

    It is only pure reason that the Omniscient God Almighty will not be led into a situation where He will find Himself in utter helplessness that He will need the help of one of His children to come out of a crisis,

    God is not the one helpless, he is not the one in a crisis. This is a complete upside down view of God and man. We are the ones that are helpless, not God.

    Isaiah 53:6

    All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    Romans 3:10

    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

    or to find Himself in a situation that there is no other way than killing one innocent person—that too His own first born—longest loved son in the first place! Bringing the son through a virgin, and finally killing him through a cruelest manner, and making such a KILLING the basis of forgiveness of people’s sins CANNOT BE an idea originated with God, Jesus nor any prophet.

    And yet, God makes the very thing you reject exceedingly clear:

    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. -- John 3: 15-17

    Christ Trades Places :

    For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust - 1 Peter 3: 18

    Because fulfillment of such a scheme depends on God’s expectation of consistent behavior of hard-core sinners like Pharisees, which means God should depend on THE CO-OPERATION OF AVOWED SINNERS TO REMOVE SINS!? If it takes a greater sin (killing the innocent son) to remove lesser sins, what does God convey through ransom-teaching—SIN REMOVES SIN?

    Now you are calling God a sinner? God is the one who defines sin, not you. What good parent would not hesitate to run into a burning building to save his children? Why is it heroic for humans to do something like this and a sin for God to do it in your opinion? Very hypocritical to reason this way.

    In God's infinite wisdom, He ordered the death penalty for sin. But, Christ BECAME SIN for us. Through the act of Substitution a way has been found that is acceptable to both the Law giver and to many free moral agents (people) who receive it.

    For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. - 2 Cor. 5: 21

    This is the great exchange that is offered to mankind by God.

    If ransom teaching is true, then it only creates more problem than it supposedly solves

    It only creates a "problem" for those who are anti-christ.

    Jesus says some are “good,” (Mathew 12:35) hence not in need of any sacrifice like ransom sacrifice.

    The "good" and "righteous" in the bible are those that put faith in God and actually believe him. This is imputed goodness and imputed righteousness as opposed to inherent righteousness. ALL still gotta have a Savior.

    And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith - Phil. 3: 9

  • Ireneus


    This not reasoning, but repeating what someone wrote thoughtlessly.

    Enjoy your life of refusing to see.

  • Perry

    But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.” Hebrews 9:26

    I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” John 6:51

    “…waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.” Titus 2:13-14

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16

    “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him. “Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? But for this purpose I have come to this hour.” John 12:24-27

    For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.” Luke 19:5, 9-10

    “For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility between us by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.” Ephesians 2:14-18

    The purpose of Jesus sacrifice is abundantly clear. His life for yours....that's the offer on the table. We won't get another.

  • waton
    The purpose of Jesus sacrifice is abundantly clear. His life for yours....that's the offer on the table. We won't get another.

    It is to undo the work of the devil, which leads us back to the talking snake. making the undoing a fake.

  • Ireneus


    All those verses are weeds according to Prophet Jeremiah 7:22, 31; 8:8

  • Perry

    Spirits are real waton. The occult is a global practice.


    Jeremiah 8:8 is no problem at all. Scribes weren't just secretaries and copyists. .They were also teachers who did exegesis of scripture and in this case, were corruptly interpreting the law... not only with their mouth but also with their pen.... just as you do when you state certain scriptures that you don't like are "weeds".

    Furthermore, the very next verse (9) claims that these false teachers HAD THE WORD OF GOD, BUT REJECTED IT.

    "they have rejected the word of the Lord" V.9 Obviously, they had to have had the Word of God in order to reject it.

    Scripture has been preserved. The Dead Sea scrolls gave us the book of Isaiah, which showed virtually no change in over 1000 years of copying.

    Having the Word of God, and speaking & writing accurately about it are not the same things.

    Preservation of Scripture is not a synonym for exegesis.

  • cofty
    Spirits are real waton. The occult is a global practice

    Millions of people spend billions of dollars on homeopathic 'medicine'.

    Popularity is not a measure of reality.

  • Perry

    The King James Version conveys the idea more accurately by stating that the Scribes' efforts were in vain. The possession of the accurate "Law of the Lord" (the one they mentally rejected) was also written in vain (at least to them) because they didn't accept it as written.

    V. 8) How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

    The book of Jeremiah is probably the most negative book in the bible. It utterly condemns the Israeli generation at that time. Judgment was coming unless they repented, which they didn't; and it did..... just as Jeremiah said it would.

  • Ireneus


    Jeremiah is much more than you can misinterpret--he declared all sacrifices as human invention (7:22, 31). When everyone understood circumcision as removal of skin of male sexual organ, only Jeremiah understood it correctly, as removal of skin of heart, ego (4:4) which is done without the help of priests. And it is this ego, the brute, that was to be sacrificed which was later misunderstood as animal sacrifice in all religions.

  • venus

    According to God’s own law, read from the context, it is Satan (not Jesus) who should have been crucified:

    “If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse someone of a crime [Satan accused God of lying as He was allegedly withholding something good from humans], the two people involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the Lord before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time. The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite [if Satan were to be found lying against God], then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. You must purge the evil [Satan, not Jesus who is the symbol of sinlessness] from among you. The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing be done among you. Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.” (Deuteronomy 19:16-21)

Share this