Recording of doorstop meeting with JWs
I thought you did quite well with this.
I am still surprised at how quickly a regular r&f witness resorts to lying when asked some hard questions. I know there are a lot of goodhearted people in the religion, so I am surprised when they lie so readily to cover for the organization.
Around the 13:00 mark there is an interesting exchange:
"Are you allowed to question your beliefs?"
"Yeah..... Yeah (high pitched voice suddenly)
"So you can criticize a doctrine openly?"
"Yeah, I can go to the elders...."
Uhhh .........going to the elders is not questioning openly.........I know some of this is what they tell themselves, but it's nuts to hear them tell half-truths so easily.
I am an elder (not much longer). Let me tell you, if someone comes forward criticizing a doctrine, it would be a matter of minutes before the subject changed to the motives and attitude of the publisher. Don't let there be more than one question or have the question be something integral to the belief system like 1914 or FDS. That would escalate the problem very quickly.
Here is the typical formula elders use:
One question = Awww the sheep needs some spiritual guidance.
Two questions = Well I see this one is stubborn....
Three questions = Time to be counseled for questioning the FDS and thus God Almighty himself - this person's name could now be brought up before the body as a potential apostate or a person "poisoned" by apostates. It is not out of the question for a 2-brother investigating committee to be formed to dig into this serious spiritual matter.
But since my conversation with them yesterday (which they terminated, deciding I was being "argumentative")
That`s where you went wrong..
Jehovah`s Witnesses Don`t Come To Your Door..
TO HAVE A CONVERSATION..
No, it ends when they don't have a preformed response to your question or statement. If it starts creating feelings of cognitive dissonance. I remember that feeling> It was the beginning of my searching for the answer and being surprised what it was.
Interesting conversation....these ladies were definitely given reason to rethink their typical JW logic. Once they heard you use the expression "still in good standing" the conversation was over....I think they must have known you were a former JW at that point. Their cognitive dissonance was running rampant throughout the conversation and I think it must have been a relief for them to be able to dismiss you as argumentative or as an apostate and therefore with a clear conscience, not have to question themselves anymore.
When she said " I don't listen to criticisms that are designed to tear down my faith" it would have been interesting to point out that from what you've seen, JW literature is designed to tear down the faith of other people, right at their own front door and to point out to them that their religion is backed by Satan himself and in fact they will die if they don't convert to the JW religion. Despite this, they expect others to read their literature anyway and to listen to them when they come to their door. No one is out to break their faith, it's just that JW's are always criticizing others and boasting about theirs being the only true religion. It's only natural that a thinking person would point out the flaws in the reasoning that has drawn them to that conclusion.
When she compared transfusing blood to transfusing alcohol, it would have been interesting to point out that comparing an injection of alcohol to a blood transfusion, isn't a valid comparison since alcohol, whether it's ingested or injected would still have the same adverse effect on the body that the doctor was concerned about. Yet if a starving person is given a blood transfusion, they'd still be starving to death because transfusing blood and eating blood are two different things and have two different effects on the body. Also, in certain places in the bible it shows that anyone who does ingest animal blood, would be unclean for a certain period, no one had to die over it. The scriptures are talking about dietary laws regarding animal blood not human blood used for medical purposes.
She pointed out that taking a blood transfusion would jeopardize her relationship with Jehovah. Did she mean it would be jeopardized forever....doesn't he as a loving father forgive us of sins and weaknesses? Would he not understand how a person out of fear for his life, may have a moment of weakness?
I loved how you made them think about how much actual "study" of other faiths and religions they had done before coming to the conclusion that JW's were the only true religion.
You kept calm and logical throughout the conversation....well done !
It was a pretty good opportunity to ask them questions they would never answer to an "apostate". I don't think they actually picked me as an XJW, they just knew I was an argumentative bastard who didn't like them, though I did try to be respectful to keep the conversation going. There are many other questions I'd have liked to ask them, but as we know JWs just hate engaging in normal discussions about their beliefs.
A couple of years after leaving the JWs I wrote a long, and very carefully considered letter to the guy who "studied" with me way back in the 1980s when I joined. I explained why I joined, and then ultimately why I left. I told him I would love to have a long chat with him about it -- and I would. I would really love to discuss this stuff and help him to understand why I feel this way, and the basis of my beliefs. But of course he wouldn't. Why are they so afraid?
You are so true about their aim of tearing down the faith of others. And of course that irony, often pointed out, that they set out to turn believers of other religions into apostates.