by Saved_JW 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
@outlaw.....I lol'd.
just live a great life, and keep your side of the street clean. they might, just maybe, think: Wow that apostate is so happy and lives a happy & moral life. I wonder why?.....Jacob Menza
Yep..People wake up when they`re ready..
Some JW`s will never be ready..
.
......................Some JW`s Are..
...........Happy Right Where They Are..
............
If reasoning and critical thinking was not a problem, the org would not be so insistent on avoiding apostate material or any other information critical of the org. They know that there is a good chunk of members out there who have a weak shell (that is actually a good thing) and could be easily pierced. Provided they are willing to listen, even if just a little bit. With that said, emotions do play a big role and I did not want to accept it at first.
I think emotions, however, can have a bit of logic built-in. Not as easy to dwell on as plain math where 2+2=4 no matter who you love or what party you are affiliated with. But you could call it the Barney principle. I love you, therefore you love me. But when one of those sides fails, then the logic is destroyed and the questions begin to raise. Once the emotions are removed, then the questioning can begin.
Unfortunately, is much easier said than done.
I do not think it possibe to "reason" with any indoctrinated cult member, not in the true sense of the word "reason" any way. You can plant seeds of truth while they are not looking, but full on reasoning with logic and honest and broad assessment of a subject that threatens their world view? No, they will mentally cut you off everytime, and, if they feel you have gone too far (easy to do with a dub) they will politely pretend to "look that up" and just avoid you like the spiritual plague in the future.
Truth seeding is the best way to go, if you have the time and the patience for it that is.
Do either of you know of any moderately intelligent witnesses?
Yes, I do. Intelligence is not the problem!! The problem is they are under mind control. How do you think they function out in society, many of them moderately to very successful? They aren't dumb, they are under the control of the WTS, that they are God's channel of communication. Breaking that is the first step to freeing the JW mind.
How can one reason with a person who believes in Theocratic Warfare? There is NO reasoning with a person that has decided to lie to propagate their religion. Facts fall on deaf ears when they think everyone lies
Outlaw, as always, very entertaining
Good luck.
Doc
Good O.P !
I have come to a similar conclusion as you. I was very surprised when I first discovered that some who I had thought of as VERY STRONG JW's, were in fact only convinced it was " the truth" by emotion !
Cofty is right of course, above, that all JW's are different. I was, and still am, a lover of truth, so facts and reasoning were the things that made me "walk". I could not bear to " sit with men of lies".
But most JW's do not care about truth, accuracy, facts etc etc, they are just "in love with" the Cult, and like an infatuated Teen, reason logic and cold hard facts and truth do not come in to it.
Infatuation eventually loses its strength though, that is when we need to be ready to show love and concern, and mend the broken heart.
There is a great deal of interest in “cults” which can take many forms: They may be religious or racial, political or mystical, self-help or pseudo-psychological, but they all have half a dozen recognizable characteristics:
Most cults start their induction by trying to stop both individualistic and critical thinking like the army their job is the first to break you than remake you as one of them. This involves the introduction of a “sacred creed” that members may have to live by. Through open confession and subordination of the individual to the doctrine the cult ensures control and “purity”. Cults deliberately induce powerful emotions like fear, guilt but also pride. They tend to develop their own language, dress and signals which shows their specialness.
But the central question is whether usually-thought-of good, legitimate organizations do things differently than cults. Do the Boy Scouts or the Round Table or the Women’s Institute operate psychologically at any rate?
All too often, we explain strange, unexpected behaviour (like joining a cult) in terms of the dispositions (personality) of others; they (the poor gullible naïve indoctrinated members) have quite defective personalities But we explain more common behaviour in terms of the appeal of an accepted group's philosophy, leaders or benefits. Thus sad inadequates join cults; but altruistic, caring people join the church.
Applying misunderstood psychiatric labels to those who join extremist groups offers little or no explanation for their behaviour. It often represents little more than a moralistic condemnation. Rather than immediately trying to blame extremists for being different, it is equally important to try to understand the psychological appeal of cults, extremist groups and political cells, as well as some business organizations.
Any analysis of the make-up of individuals in cult groups shows surprising large diversity in terms of age, career, education, ideology and talents. They can attract the post-graduate and the illiterate; the teenager and the "senior citizen"; the solidly middle class and those on the fringes of society. It is not so much their demography that is important as their psychological needs.
Studies on those who have signed up for all sorts of cults and extremist groups have, however, shown that they do have similar and sophisticated recruitment promises, induction techniques and social influence agendas. They use methods of "indoctrination" and "mind-control" no different from all groups, though they maybe a lot more intensely applied.
The mind-controlling techniques of extremist groups are little different form those of the army, religious organisations and prisons. These "wicked" techniques are in fact well known; demanding total, consistent compliance and conformity; using heavy persuasive techniques; creating dissonance; emotional manipulation. They differ only in intensity and duration…and thus in effectiveness.
What do all groups (cult and non-cult) offer a potential recruit? Answer: friendship, identity, respect and security. They also offer a world-view: a way of discerning right from wrong; good from bad. These are powerful incentives for all people whatever their background. We are social animals. But they offer more: a structured life-style and the ability to acquire new skills. Through their (very different) ideologies they also offer moral explanations into how the world works. They provide clear answers to difficult and big questions: what it all means; the secret of happiness; life after death; the difference between right and wrong, who is with us and who against us; the saved and the damned.
Even political groups have a sort of religious agenda and the language of revenge, purification, justice which are often very "old testament". There is usually within most extremist cult groups surprisingly little violence and often a healthy life-style, at least in terms of exercise, diet, etc. And many promise the ability to heal physical and psychological illnesses...even the illness of society as a whole. Many promise the greatest gift of all: immortality.
Essentially five things make extreme groups dangerous to their member:
First, they demand that they sever all ties with people (family, friends) and organisations (schools, churches). This naturally makes them more dependent on the cult itself and helps create the person's new identity. They start again, wipe the slate clean. This rule is also found in extreme in Christian Monastic orders.
Second, the members are required to show immediate and unquestioning obedience to rules and regulations which maybe arbitrary, petty or pointless. The idea is to ensure allegiance and obedience. This strategy is used to "break-in" all army recruits. It is the very staff of boot camps.
Third, group members often have to do long hours of tedious work. It maybe drilling, begging for money, cooking, followed by compulsory reading, chanting or mediating. Recruits usually become physically, emotionally and mentally exhausted. Sleep deprivation is a good start. It's all part of the induction process.
Fourth, all groups need money to exist. Some are very much into money both as an end and as a means. This may, therefore, quickly involve recruits getting involved in illegal, or semi-legal activities. Groups that are state supported or those with a long history of operation may, however, be different. Members need to understand how, when and why money is required and to set about getting it quickly.
Fifth, groups make exit costs very high. Leaving is associated with failure, persecution and isolation. It is more than just a waste of time and effort. They make you feel as if nothing will ever be the same as you will be an outcast. It is made to sound a very unattractive, indeed impossible, option.
