Can someone help me figure out something, dealing with paganism?

by Tameria2001 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  OneEyedJoe

  One thing I do remember asking, and no one could ever answer was if they don't celebrate the different holidays, because of pagan origin, then why couldn't they celebrate the Jewish holidays such as Hanukkah, surely they weren't started by pagans. Weren't the Jews at one time God's chosen? That was how I brought it up back then, this was before I was even baptized. No one could or would answer my question.
  

  I'm shocked no one could give you an answer. I can make up a perfectly coherent one for you just off the top of my head - The Jews were god's chosen people, but when they killed jesus and the curtain between the holy and most holy in the temple ripped, that symbolized the breaking of the covenant that god had with them and they are no longer his people. Jesus came to fulfill the law and put an end to it, so celebrating the jewish holidays would be clinging to the tradition of people that were no longer special in gods eyes, and clinging to requirements that were ended by Jesus. This would put you in similar footing to Lot's wife who looked back at the things left behind, you wouldn't want to be like Lot's wife, would you?

  That'd be a great after-the-fact doctrinal justification. Obviously, though, it's more succinctly explained as: just like the other holidays you're not allowed to celebrate, you can't celebrate the jewish ones because then you might do so with non-JWs and start to see that they aren't so bad.
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  truth_b_known

  JW: "We would like to invite you to the Memorial of Christ's Death."

  Me: "Do you mean 'The Lord's Evening Meal?"

  JW: "Yes!"

  ME: "No thank you. That is based on the pagan holiday of known as 'Passover'. As a Christian, I do not practice interfaith."

  JW: "But Jesus commanded us to do this!"

  Me: "Do you refuse to celebrate Christmas?"

  JW: "Yes."

  Me: "Why?"

  JW: "Because it has pagan origins."

  Me: "How do you define 'pagan'?"

  JW: "Any practice originating with false religion."

  Me: "Is Judaism false religion?"

  JW: "Yes."

  Me:*Puts on Thug Life sunglasses/"The Next Episode" by Dr. Dre starts playing*
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  Tameria2001

  I wished we had an Awesome button to click. :)
  
• 

  Half banana

  The Jews of course were only the people of their own declared god YHWH, who in turn was borrowed from the Phoenecian pantheon of gods, YHWH being a son of the God El. So the Jews chose their own god to represent them and then claimed themselves to be "his people", or "God's chosen people", just like JWs do today.

  There is of course no evidence for YHWH choosing anyone or ever having spoken or done anything at all-- but this is the very nature of religious belief.

  So what is "pagan"? The word pagan originally referred to things from the countryside, and simply meant of the village, the word in Latin for village was pagus. Likewise the word heathen meant a dweller on the heath. In other words; relating to rustic life as opposed to educated civilisation found in cities. Fourth century Roman Christianity (when the Bible was compiled) saw itself as a civilised, sophisticated and urban (hence urbane) religion and wanted no demeaning connection with the peasantry.

  The irony though is that the underpinning of Bible stories are indeed folk tales i.e. pagan, often based on almost universal mythologies drawn from very ancient fables about the sun, stars and constellations.
• 

  The Fall Guy

  (Romans 14:5) One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others; let each one be fully convinced in his own mind.

  (Colossians 2:16) Therefore, do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath.
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  DATA-DOG

  There was never a “Pagan” on this planet until Xians created that label.

  There were only people who believed in Nature’s power, the seasons, astronomy, ect. Of course they came up with their own symbology to express the world around them; beliefs differing across cultures.

  Performing an actual study of ancient cultures and their scientific advancements, especially their knowledge of the cosmos is a great place to start understanding what being “Pagan” meant to the Jews and later European Xians.

  DD
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  Biahi

  I showed my grown, university educated daughter, a watchtower magazine with an article called "Christmas-Is it for Christians?" She had it completely debunked in under 5 minutes. Basically, the article said if it's not in the bible we shouldn't do it. She said if you apply that logic to everything, we wouldn't drive cars, watch tv, got to movies, fly in airplanes, etc. because none of those things are in the bible either.
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  OnTheWayOut

  As Sir82 says, "Clearly, breathing is of pagan origin." It would seem that most everything is of pagan origin.

  Watchtower picks things to be against, mostly based on how it will make members uncomfortable around worldly people, particularly family, coworkers, and schoolmates.

  Weddings bring JW's together and offer opportunities to show worldly family that they are almost normal, but birthday cakes cause coworkers, schoolmates, and worldly family to show their friendly good side, so Watchtower poisons it. Similar with holiday celebrations. But wedding rings are a protection (or at least used to be) from outsider advances.
  
  
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  Phizzy

  I agree that J.W "reasoning" would give an answer almost word for word like One Eyed Joe's on the issue of celebrating Hannukah, but again, JW "logic" falls down.

  Hannukah celebrates the re-dedication of the Temple as used by God's Chosen People as they were at the time, and is not really a religious celebration, but an historical one, and one that Jesus would have observed, as would Jewish Christians, like Paul.

  Seems hard to find any "pagan" connection, or any valid reason why J.W's should not join in such a happy celebration.