Countering claim..."it's only imperfect men.."

by core 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • core

    How would you counter the JW response, when faced with major issues (child abuse, autocratic/hypocritical elders, changing doctrines, dates, blood issue, etc etc) ..."Yes but it's only imperfect men ..Jehovah is using them but will put things right in his own time"

    This blindness to reality allows any error to be accounted for and ignored - "wait on Jehovah" covers any error .

    Yet the Rank & File swallow this as if it was a logical reasoned answer to the issues raised - is there a way to open the eyes of those who parrot these words when confronted with any issue ?

    The Pharisees were only imperfect men but Jesus slatted them as blind guides etc....he did not say "well lets just wait on Jehovah to sort them out.."

    Or is it just as the saying is "there none as blind as those who do not want to see"

  • Simon

    They have claimed that Elders don't actually make the decisions, they are guided by holy spirit and are just confirming the decisions already made in heaven.

    This really does make a nonsense of disfellowshippings for instance when it's over some issue or doctrrine that is later abandoned - does it mean that god got it wrong or that the holy spirit got it wrong or that the WTS and elders are NOT guided or led in any way?

    I asked the elders that and they refused to answer and quickly started talking about something else !

  • talesin


    is there a way to open the eyes of those who parrot these words when confronted with any issue ?

    No. (refer to Simon's post)

    I tell my parents the same thing "well, if so many in the org are corrupt, how can it be the only truth. When Jah decides to clean it up, maybe I will reconsider my life choice". They just can't hear. And I'm secure in my knowledge that the above clean-up will never happen.

    My experience has been that it is a waste of energy and breath to talk logic.

    You need to make your own decision about this. Just please take care of yourself. If you feel like you are beating your head against a brick wall and coming away from the discussion feeling battered, that's a good time to stop, or at least take a break.


  • core


    My experience has been that it is a waste of energy and breath to talk logic.

    Yes I agree - with relatives the blindness is absolute - it is banging head on brick wall - it reminds me of the time when first in the truth when we thought that the truth MUST be obvious to anyone if we just explained it.......same goes for the 'untruth' - it is obvious but not if you dont want to see it.

    SIMON - yes amazing how elders are appointed by Holy Spirit except when they are wrong or act on their own initiative

  • rocketman

    Well, if it's imperfection, then it ought to be just imperfection for other religions too. But other faiths go get to play the imperfection card in jw eyes now, do they?

  • rocketman

    btw made an excellent point about the Pharisees!!

  • Prisca

    You could try to counter it by saying: "You could use that argument regarding every religion and religious leader out there. After all, they're all imperfect men too....."

  • Hamas

    The prophets of old were all imperfect men but they didn't seem to get things wrong.

    And there is no such thing as an uninspired prophet.

  • NeonMadman

    The problem isn't so much that they are imperfect men; no reasonable person could expect them to be anything else than that. The real problem is that they claim a level of authority that is inappropriate for imperfect men. They claim to speak for God. If one claims to speak for God and is telling the truth, his pronouncements will never be wrong, and will never need to be revised. If such is not the case, then the one claiming to speak for God is lying when he makes the claim, and is advancing his own ideas in God's name. This, in essence, is the Biblical definition of a false prophet, and, as Hamas pointed out, it makes little difference whether one claims specifically to be "inspired." The claim to be speaking for God is in itself a claim of inspiration.

    Really, all of the Biblical prophets were imperfect men; but when they spoke God's messages, they were never wrong. The Watchtower wants it both ways. They want the authority of one who speaks for God, but not the responsibility that comes with claiming to speak for God. They are false prophets in the most classical sense.

  • garybuss

    I've said it before,

    To try to reason with a Jehovah's Witness is like trying to reason with a drunk.
    To debate a Jehovah's Witness is like being in a pissing contest with a skunk.

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