When Israel was living under a Theocracy ,was it a Paradise ?

by smiddy3 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  smiddy3

  The Bible books that speak of a time when the Israelite`s were enjoying Jehovah`s blessings , isnt it true they were still dying from old age ,sickness , and death ? ....Yes

  Didn`t they have a leper colony in their midst ?....Yes

  Didn`t they still have the poor among them ? ....Yes

  Didn`t they still have wars among their neighbour`s where Israelite men were killed in battle ,leaving widows and fatherless children behind ? { Think of Bathsheba`s husband who was sent to the front by King David knowing he would be killed their }....Yes

  And the original Paradise with Adam and Eve , also proved to be a failure .

  The future Paradise prophecy by JW`s doesn`t inspire any confidence in me ,how about you.?
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  eyeuse2badub

  Yea but-----the men got to have multiple wives! Isn't that Paradise?

  just saying!
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  Half banana

  Smiddy, you write as if these Jewish things really existed! The founders of Judaism, Abraham and Moses are fictional characters-- they never lived, they could never make contracts with God or anyone-- it's all storybook narrative. Theocracies are fiction, the Jews never had one. God never shows himself to anyone so theocracy is the work of men claiming to do God's rule. There never was a Jewish paradise nor Adam and Eve. Some claim that the Mosaic law was never actually implemented as written.

  But you're dead right there is no basis for thinking that the Jewish god YHVH or his consort Ashera or his father El (all of which Israel borrowed from the Phoenicians) have any interest in making an Earthly paradise. It's an empty promise. Better to get on with real things.......
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  redvip2000

  Look, the entire thing is preposterous. If you look at the interactions between the God of the Bible and humans, you quickly get the sense that God was a complete moron. This shows us that this God is made up.

  Somehow God always chooses the path or more resistance that causes the most suffering. Example, Israel is being held captive in Egypt. God demands that his people be freed from Pharaoh, and then "hardens" his heart. Why? Why wouldn't God soften his heart so that Pharaoh would agree and let them go?

  Then some folks in Israel screw up, so he forces them to spend 40 years in the desert. Why 40 years? And why all of them? If God was smart and a good manager of mankind, he would simply punish the offending ones quickly and move along to the promised land with the rest.

  Nothing is easy with God. Nothing is optimized to cause the least suffering. Nothing is logical. It's all made up nonsense from ancient middle eastern peasants who didn't even understand they had to wash their hands after taking a shit.
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  WTWizard

  Looking in the LIE-ble, one sees that israel is openly trying to wipe out all the Gentile nations around it. And, if you knew the codes and what they stood for, your LIE-ble would be headed for the nearest rubbish bin or incinerator at once. Amelek? Anyone know what that is code for? This is a curse against the white race! And, even more blatant, the discourse where Noah cursed Ham is a curse against the black race. For what? Israel, that's what. And that is if you accept the account as accurate.

  Which they are all lies. Nothing more than a curse against the whole human race. Go and mix up people of different races that simply want to be left alone, and sell them as slaves. Then finish the job by sending missionaries to spread that xian cancer to ruin what's left of their culture. All the while, israel remains culturally intact. And all right in that LIE-ble! The missions to ruin culture are hinted at when that rag and its idiot disciples went to spread that cancer into Europe (ultimately leading to the Dark Ages) and the Middle East (where it led ultimately to wars, especially when its equally dark cousin islam came out).

  Paradise? When you need to plunder every nation except yours, as a cancer to the whole region? Israel could not conquer anything through direct conquest--they needed to use that LIE-ble (which includes its filthy torah) and the black magic contained therein to do this. All the while, that same LIE-ble has been used to hold back science to this very day. Paradise?
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  stillin

  When the wandering Hebrews sent spies to investigate that property, they came back with stories of huge grapes and big healthy people. That was the last we heard about that, and it was before the land came under theocracy!
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  fulltimestudent

  eyeuse2badub : "Yea but-----the men got to have multiple wives! Isn't that Paradise?"

  You mean - all together at once? Often wondered about that!
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  fulltimestudent

  Nice thread Smiddy! We can explore some concepts here, Associated with the concept of Paradise is the concept of the tree of life. Chrisstian seldom talk about the memes that neighbouring societies (to Israel) also had.

  A meme is _ "an element of a culture or system of behaviour passed from one individual to another by imitation or other non-genetic means."

  Once you realise that, its easy to understand how these 'memes' got talked about among the Israelites. Now a close by human society that we know a lot about is Egypt. IN FACT,.though the bible doesn't talk about it, the Egyptians ruled over the Palestine area for a few hundred years.

  Even the Israelite hero Moses, it seems knew all about Egyptian culture ) Acts 7:22 - "And Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians," (English Standard Version)

  Now think about this image:

  
  

  It portrays the Egyptian concept of the 'Tree of Life." Was this Egyptian meme transferred into Israelite culture? Two dollars say it was!

  But even if you want to argue that Moses wouldn't do that, lets's go to another nearby culture that also held Israel in subjection for a time.

  Here's another image.

  
  

  This is an Assyrian 'Tree of life,' and look whose guarding it? Heard that before? Yup, If you want to think about this, read Genesis 3:22 and wonder how the scribe heard this meme.

  Again, we have a powerful empire, Assyria and later Babylon, ruling over the Israelites and their memes being transferred into the subject state of Israel.
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  Half banana

  Absolutely FTS. I have just been to the British Museum exhibition called I am Ashurbanipal. He ruled Assyria from 699 to 631 BC. The artifacts on display show highly developed artistic representations of court life, the richness of furnishings, fittings and dress and a great example of the thousands of clay tablets which would have have made up part of his library (the texts were miniscule). The exhibition is dominated by sharply defined relief engravings on large stone panels, which would have been brightly coloured in their day and adorned the palace walls. They told the world what a god-like king Ashurbanipal was.

  Indeed the Assyrian tree of life was guarded by two angels or cherubs, call them what you will. How can anyone understand the Bible without knowing the cultural context from which it was drawn? Certainly not the WTBTS!

  Ancient Assyrian territory covered Iraq, Iran, Syria, Western Turkey, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Cyprus and a lot of Arabian desert. Northern Iraq today is the home of Isis who have created their dystopian theocracy there. It's just as well that many of the Assyrian treasures are cared for in responsible museums outside of that fundamentalist hell. I was much reminded of how Islamic extremism represents a continuum of gory practices made public to create fear, which reach back into antiquity as shown graphically in the royal artwork. Some people never learn.
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  fulltimestudent

  Half banana,

  Having seen those informative sights, I know that you at least will enjoy this romp through this religio- political background to old YHWH's excitement (wetting himself !!) at the thought of having his very own garden.

  (Please excuse my own light-hearted comments - I just had some wonderful, happifying (a word I learnt from the WT) news)

  A semi-academic web publication that calls itself The Conversation published this review of the ancient religious use of gardens in West Asia.

  Here's the link: https://theconversation.com/heaven-on-earth-the-ancient-roots-of-your-backyard-garden-108682?fbclid=IwAR0gq9Hm-0_OUQQujoa41TfVqY7mshp2m4yJY2yo7RtV_UCJk7ozj0Eh_70

  Macquarie University's Associate Professor Eva Anagnostou-Laoutides writes about this connection.