I Don't Care If It Is A Cult ???

by thereishope 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • thereishope

    Shared a bit with my husband the other day about what I'd learned about cults. How nearly (if not all) every box on the list gets checked for JW. He got some upset! "I don't care if it IS a cult! I just want to make it into paradise." I was shocked and speechless. Still am. If this comes up again, what can I say? I think maybe he was a little shocked himself, and came up with the first thing that came to mind, he didn't seem to stop and think. Maybe he's been thinking about it, I don't know. I think it would be unwise to bring it up again, but if he does, how can I respond in a way that might have a chance of winning him over (there, I sound just like a JW, I never used to talk like that when I was a real person ) I'd just like to be prepared. Thanks!

  • xjwsrock

    I imagine that is a strange experience. You see cult indoctrination come out in a conversation about the org being a cult.....yikes.....But what else can happen really? It's all pre-programmed in there (his head that is)

    It's emotional too. The carrot was the motivator that came up for him. It is used to manipulate thousands so not surprising. Often it is to see a dead loved one again. That's what makes me sick. This cult promises to deliver a person's favorite dead person if they serve them the rest of their lives.

    Probably best to lay back for awhile. The goal is to plant seeds. We have no control over if or when they sprout.

  • steve2

    A normal reaction, I'd calmly reply. Who in a cult ever says, "Hey, you're right, honey. I'm in a cult!" Never - unless he's a thinker and prepared to face facts - and that's the rub.

    Perhaps look at other groups that are more obviously cults such as Scientology and say, "I guess people in cults such as Scientologists would also see themselves as not being in a cult and they could even defensively say, 'I don't care'. But isn't this a question that is best answered with facts and not feelings? What do you think, my love?"

  • Worldling9

    Yikes. He'll be needing to think about what he said. It sounds...dissonant. I think some older dubs may be hedging their bets, staying in just in case. I think my mother may have been...she was in for over 50 years and saw all the changes. The latest ones must have had her questioning privately and saying to herself that this wasn't the organization she had committed her life to. It's almost a relief to me that she doesn't have to deal with this anymore.


  • redvip2000

    he didn't seem to stop and think.

    There is your answer. There is no reasoning with people that are not willing to think and reason themselves. This is the reason why there will always be people willing to follow cults.

  • Finkelstein

    The ancient prophesied paradise was an expression of theology to appeal to people who lived 3000 years ago who pretty much had the same enduring hardships as humanity today, such as sickness and death among other things.

    The JWS prophecies/doctrines have failed and not come true since this religious publishing house started up over 140 years ago.

    They may have been contrived doctrines to attract and sell literature but there has been a foolish ploy of playing with reality within this religoius organization that caused the actual deaths of thousands , the breaking up of millions of families to name a few.

  • xjwsrock

    I will have to say, I'm having more success with my wife slowly eroding the JW mindset/phobias. By less obvious means such as living well financially. All that simplify bologna leads to a life of financial stress and often worries about security. Despite the videos, pioneer couples usually can't live in the safest areas of town. We enjoy things that others are "doing-without for the Lord"...Lol. It's just stupid. Working hard and being successful not only brings a better income and a better quality of life, it also brings satisfaction and fulfillment - something that is glaringly missing from most JW lives.

    I guess I'm doing what Steven Hassan talks about - trying to bring out the non-cult personality. It's slow but I'm seeing progress.

  • OneEyedJoe

    I think the problem is that a true believer can acknowledge that it behaves like a cult, but still believe that it is "truth." I was somewhat in this category for a while - sitting at the KH listening to a talk about shunning apostates or not accepting literature from someone even if it meant they'd read yours, or listening to all the loaded language - I thought to myself "If I were creating a cult, that would be something I would do." That didn't mean it wasn't "the truth" to me though. I just thought that god wanted to run his organization like a cult. If that was god's way of doing things, and I was gonna get to paradise out of the deal, who am I to argue?

    I think the key here is to introduce a couple concepts over time and let them come together. You need more than to think/know that it is or might be a cult. You then need to have some reason to doubt the efficacy of the doctrine - something significant enough that the idea that it's a cult allows you to realize that you might've been fooled and understand why. One of the big factors that keeps people trapped in a cult is the idea that they're smart and don't think someone could have fooled them. If someone understands that anyone could potentially be fooled by a cult, they're much more likely to be able to accept the possibility that they've been fooled and that opens the door to a more objective explanation of failed prophecy, extra-biblical rules, and flawed doctrine.

    When I finally came clean to my wife about wanting to leave I called it a cult rather openly and she asked me "well if you think they do all these things that make it a cult - what would you have them change to not be a cult?" I realize in retrospect that her question was rhetorical - she was saying that even if it was a cult, or behaved like one, it couldn't be changed because that's how god wanted it.

  • Worldling9

    Keep this in your pocket: Go to revealnews.org and search for Jehovah's witness abuse. Trey Bundy is a secular investigative reporter, not an apostate. Look at the articles about the court cases. If you have children/grandchildren, maybe some of the court records will be of interest to him at some point.

  • LV101

    People can't deal with the reality and give up all they've been promised and their anchor that keeps them holding on. They've relied and dreamed about this wonderful/perfect world/health - you name it - for who knows how long. It's devastating and difficult to hear or think about anything to the contrary and like ripping the ground out from under them. He's doing what's normal.

    That's why we go into denial - it's kind of a protection for the soul until we're able to tip toe into truth.

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