Languages, Dialects, Accents

by LoveUniHateExams 180 Replies latest jw friends

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Interesting, too, is that different suffixes are used for male and female - yes, Arabic is kinda like French ... but worse!

    In addition to he and she ... they, you (singular) and you (plural) all have masculine and feminine forms.

    If you're handing money to a shopkeeper, you might say "tafaddal" (here you are); if the shopkeeper's a woman you'd say tafaddali.

    Even the phrase for please has masculine and feminine forms, depending on whether you're addressing a male (min fadlak) or female (min fadlik).

    I seriously hope the transgender lobby with its plethora of pretend pronouns doesn't turn it attention to Arabic - there are already loads of pronouns for me to get my head around!

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    The following is a brief introduction to sentence structure and grammatical cases, if my memory serves me well.

    Sentences usually contain a verb (doing word), one or more nouns, and maybe adjectives (words that describe nouns) and adverbs (words that describe how the verb is carried out).

    Here's a simple sentence:

    My friend gives me the football.

    Gives is the verb.

    Friend is the noun that's doing the verb; it's the subject of the sentence.

    Football is the noun that's having the verb done to it; it's the (direct) object of the sentence.

    Me is the indirect object of the sentence.

    English used to have grammatical cases but it got rid of them many centuries ago. The English case system was a lot like the one found in modern German.

    Here's the simple sentence in German:

    Mein Freund gibt mir den Fussball.

    Gibt is the verb.

    Freund is in the nominative case because it's the subject of the sentence.

    Fussball is in the accusative case because it's the direct object of the sentence.

    Mir is in the dative case because it's the indirect object of the sentence.

    German has three genders and four cases. The genders are masculine, feminine and neuter. The fourth case is the genitive case. It's used to indicate possession, e.g. die Frau des Kritikers ('the critic's wife' or 'the wife of the critic'). Des Kritikers is in the genitive case.

    From what I remember, feminine nouns don't change at all according to which case they're in. But masculine and neuter nouns do have extra endings when they're in the genitive and dative singular and in the dative plural.

    E.g. Mann ('man') becomes Mannes (gen. sing.) and Manne (dat. sing.). Maenner ('men') becomes Maennern (dat. plural).

    German gets worse (or better to geeks like me XD) in that the definite and indefinite articles (the, a, an), possessive pronouns (my, your, etc.) and adjectives do change with regard to cases.

    Adjectives also come in two forms - 'weak' (used with the definite article) and 'strong' (used in all other instances).

    This is the first paradigm I learnt. It's for the definite article, the. I must've learnt it well because I can remember it off the top of head nearly 25 years later!

    masc. fem. neuter pl.

    nom. der die das die

    acc. den die das die

    gen. des der des der

    dat. dem der dem den

    Of course, native German speakers and fluent speakers of German as a second language: please correct any mistakes I make.

  • TD
    TD

    Feminine nouns don't change in the genitive singular, but they do change in the dative plural. (zum Beispiel: die Kinder und den Kindern)

    You'd love Ancient Greek and Latin. (If you don't already...) They're both ten times worse (Or better depending on how you look at it) than German.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Thanks TD.

    Feminine nouns don't change in the genitive singular, but they do change in the dative plural - interesting.

    Could you give examples?

    So the dat. pl. of Katzen (cats) is?

    You'd love Ancient Greek and Latin. (If you don't already...) They're both ten times worse (Or better depending on how you look at it) than German - I've heard that Greek and Latin have more cases than German's four. I don't know much about it, but don't they have the vocative and instrumental cases?

    Just about the only Latin and Greek I know comes from knowing scientific names, e.g. Tyrannosaurus ('tyrant lizard', Greek) rex ('king', Latin).

    Edit: just saw your edit.

    I guess die Katzen would have the same ending in the dative (den Katzen).

  • TD
    TD

    I guess die Katzen would have the same ending in the dative (den Katzen).

    If the noun already ends in 'n' (And lots of feminine nouns do) then there's no change.

    I've heard that Greek and Latin have more cases than German's four. I don't know much about it, but don't they have the vocative and instrumental cases?

    Yes. Ablative, Locative, Instrumental and Vocative. In Ancient Greek, ablative shares the same form as genitive and locative and instrumental share the same form as dative, so the translator must rely on sentence structure and context.

    It was nice when Leolaia and Narkissos participated here because both held a Ph.D. in linguistics (And often corrected my forays into Ancient Greek.)


  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Thanks TD, very interesting.

    In Ancient Greek, ablative shares the same form as genitive and locative and instrumental share the same form as dative, so the translator must rely on sentence structure and context - does this mean that the ablative, locative and instrumental forms are distinct from the genitive and dative forms in Latin?

    Also, a quick word about the genitive in German. From what I remember it's used in formal language but its use is declining in informal spoken German.

    So, der Hund des alten Mannes ('the old man's dog') might be a good idea for a title of a story but German-speaking people may use other constructions to avoid using the genitive in informal speech.

    In this case der alte Mann sein Hund or similar might be used. Literal meaning: 'the old man his dog'.

    Again, any corrections welcome.

  • TD
    TD
    ...does this mean that the ablative, locative and instrumental forms are distinct from the genitive and dative forms in Latin?

    The ablative in Latin has its on form. Also I don't believe Latin has an instrumental case (I could be wrong.)

    The real kicker with both Greek and Latin is that they don't just have more cases, they have more declension sets. Greek has three main declensions, not counting the irregulars and Latin has five. It's a lot of memorization.

  • barry
  • barry
  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Here's a good idea - let's post the numerals of one to ten in languages that we have at least some knowledge of.

    Seeing as I came up with this fantastic idea, I get to go first.

    Here are the numbers one to ten in Arabic ...

    1. waahed (واحد)

    2. ithnaan (اثنان)

    3. thalaatha (ثلاثة)

    4. arba3a (اربعة)

    5. khamsa (خمسة)

    6. sitta (ستة)

    7. sab3a (سبعة)

    8. thamaaniya (ثمانية)

    9. tis3a (تسعة)

    10. 3ashara (عشرة)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWjdUcuqc8o

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