Born Twice - Die Once .... Born Once - Die Twice

by Perry 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Perry

    Jesus taught that we must die unto ourselves, and allow the Holy Spirit to take up residence within us. Some people get saved by simply inviting Jesus into their hearts, to be the lord of their life. This serves as a countering force within the born-again Christian to counterbalance the will of the flesh, which is still unsaved in this life and destined for destruction in imitation of our Lord himself.

    Attempting to live the Christian life without having this spirit within you is a waste of time at the minimum, and dangerous on the downside. Jesus said that he who sought to find his life would lose it, and he that sought to lose it for his sake would find it. Three times Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be "born again" in John Chapter 3.

    So most folks would agree that the New Testament teaches the choice of being born twice, one physical & one spiritual. Furthermore, since the resurrection of Jesus is such a well attested fact of history, it proves that he has the power of life at his disposal. Once he takes up residence within you, you live as long s he does - in your glorified body, soul and spirit.

    But, just as there are two births, the Bible teaches there are two deaths.

    Jesus warned that we are to fear the second death more than the first one.

    Revelation 20:14 tells us, "Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

    The second death is mentioned again in Revelation 21:8, which says, "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

    One commentator wrote, "The second death is the continuance of spiritual death in another and timeless existence."

    Another wrote, "Eternity to the godly is a day that has no sunset. Eternity to the wicked is a night that has no sunrise."

    Jesus spoke of hell in a very specific way. He warned of the fire of hell (see Matthew 5:22). He warned about our bodies being thrown into hell (see Matthew 5:29). And He spoke of the soul and the body being destroyed in hell (see Matthew 10:28).

    The Bible teaches that all Christians, defined as sinners who have been converted by putting their faith in Jesus Christ will avoid condemnation. And, that offer of forgiveness is for everyone.

    Your eternal destination is really your choice. Not everyone will be saved in the end - only those who put their faith in Jesus Christ.

    The purpose of this thread is to point out that not only has the Watchtower Corporation sought to deny the choice of being born again to their adherents (through the doctrine of the 144k and denial of the new covenant to general members at the Memorial), they also seek to deny the choice of we face concerning the second death.

    One of the ways they do this is by altering a scripture in the new Testament to say something it does not say and something that contradicts Jesus. Here it is in the King James and the NWT at Hebrews 9: 27:

    it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment - KJV
    it is reserved for men to die once for all time, but after this to receive a judgment - NWT

    Catch the difference? Sometimes the New Word translators add brackets to inserted words so the reader will know this was added to the original text, presumably for clarification. However they chose not to put brackets around the added words "for all time" even though this phrase in not in the original or later manuscripts.

    Why doesn't the Watchtower want people to believe that there is a second death as Jesus taught? For the same reason that they don't want people to accept the New Covenant "for forgiveness of sins" as Jesus taught in Mt. 26:27, 28

    Just as the Watchtower teaches that the New Covenant isn't possible for us (sorry all the positions were already filled long ago) , they also teach that the second death isn't possible for us either. However, God is clear that the unsaved will be reunited with their physical bodies and face Jesus in Judgment at the Great White Throne - fully alive; body, soul & spirit - after the Millennium Reign.

    And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    This what was meant when Peter stated that there would be a resurrection of both the Righteous and the Unrighteous.

    To make all this even more twisted, the Watchtower proudly teaches that the Unrighteous will be resurrected to a paradise earth!! (They take another scripture completely out of context to support this - but that is for another discussion)

    The bible is clear that the resurrection of the Unrighteous is not for the purpose of petting lions and cobras during the Millennium Reign as the Watchtower fantasizes about. Rather, it is for the stated purpose of God fulfilling his duty as Judge of moral creatures.

    the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just - Jesus
    We humans really like most of the differences that we have with all other animals. We readily accept notions of morality, goodness, art, beauty etc. What we don't like is the fact that with great gifts, comes great responsibility. There is a price that must be paid for the creation of free moral creatures such as ourselves. That price is judgment.

    God, in his benevolence so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

  • jookbeard

    I take what JC as seriously as I would watching the Cartoon Network all day and being told thats what life is like in reality

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Well, I don't want Jesus inside me.

  • Perry

    We can also see how uncomfortable Freddy Franz was with a judgement after death in his textual treatment of Job Chapter 19:

    For I well know that my redeemer is alive; He will come later and rise up over the earth. After my skin has thus been destroyed, While yet in my flesh, I will see God.... You should know that there is a judge - NWT

    For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God....that ye may know there is a judgment - KJV

    Here Fred adds the word "while" to the verse to try and insinuate that judgment is before death. However, the verse is clear, even in the NWT, that bodily facing God in judgment occurs after the "skin has been destroyed"; or at a later date after death.
  • Simon
    Well, I don't want Jesus inside me

    Sounds a bit gay and he did hang around with a bunch of guys all the time. But maybe it means like "Fantastic Voyage" or "Innerspace" ...

    There is a price that must be paid for the creation of free moral creatures such as ourselves. That price is judgment

    Perry, we weren't created as free moral creatures, we were created as slaves and punished with death for making our own choices (according to your idiotic holy book) by the god you think then 'kindly' demanded more death to make up for it all. How free are we if we are judged and executed for certain choices?

    Your bible, your god and your beliefs are nothing but a mixed up pile of utter shit.

  • Bonsai

    What Simon says!

  • Simon

    I'd like to play a game that is so much fun
    And it's not so very hard to do
    The name of the game is Simple Simon says
    And I would like for you to play it to

    Put your hands in the air
    (Simple Simon says)
    Shake them all about
    (Simple Simon says)
    Do it when Simon says
    (Simple Simon says)
    And you will never be out

    Simple Simon says put your hands on your head
    Let your back bone slip Simon says
    Put your hands on your head
    (Simple Simon says)
    Bring them down by your side
    (Simple Simon says)
    Shake them to your left
    (Simple Simon Says)
    Now shake them to your right

    Put your hands on your head
    (Simple Simon says)
    Bring them down by your side
    (Simple Simon says)
    Shake them to your left
    (Simple Simon says)
    Now shake them to your right

    Now that you have learnt
    To play this game with me
    You can see its not so hard to do
    Let's try it once again
    This time more carefully
    And I hope the winner will be you

    Clap your hands in the air
    (Simple Simon says)
    Do it double time
    (Simple Simon says)
    Slow it down like before
    (Simple Simon says)
    Ah, your looking fine
    (Simple Simon says)
    Now clap them high in the air
    (Simple Simon says)
    Do it double time
    (Simple Simon says)
    Slow it down like before
    (Simple Simon says)
    Ah, you're looking fine

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    I'm pretty sure you are mixing up several Bond film titles there, so all bets are off as to what the hell you are talking about especially when you quote bible verses in support of your plot twists.

  • punkofnice

    Prove it for yourself. There is no evidence outside the book that the catholics stitched together one day, that Jesus ever existed.

    Oh, it's warm and fuzzy to believe in Jesus, but he just doesn't exist in the way the western world has come to portray for their gain and control of the masses.

    Prove Jesus exists and I'll believe, until then, it's all poppycock. Jesus and god never helped me, ever, despite when I was a true believer. You see the excuse of christians is that I didn't have faith. That's a convenient get out of jail free card for them, but it doesn't wash with me.


  • Finkelstein

    Since Jesus bullshitted a lot about him returning to mankind in the era in which he supposedly lived, therefore that must mean we should also bullshit and lie as to emulate his own bullshit as to be re-born.

    Yes this makes all sense now.

    So that's what Perry and the Watchtower Corporation has been doing all these years .

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