by Freedom rocks 20 Replies latest watchtower bible
People seem to have a very loose concept of what constitutes “proof” of their belief system. That something fits with a belief does not make it a proof. Many such proof can be used to support both sides of an argument, often a confusion of correlation and causation.
The Golden Ratio fits the concept of intelligent design, but no more so than it shows that the universe and evolution exist as the do because they follow a mathematical structure independent of a higher power.
jwfacts - as we all know as former JWs - people can bend and twist whatever into whatever so-called proof they want.
Comes down to - no one wants to go out of existence - so people of all religions rationalize the most stupidest things to reinforce that there is a future for them no matter what.
If it were granted that this was proof for god. The question then becomes: Which God?
I imagine your average snake handler would be saying, 'the god of the bible'. That opens up a debate asking, 'why that one?'.
It then gets a bit bonkers from there and ends up with no evidence beyond 'faith'. Faith being the excuse people give when they have no evidence or good reason to believe in their version of a deity.
I tell you - if I were a god - there would be no question anyone I made would plainly know about me.
god is the WORST Communications and Marketing person in history.
The golden ratio is what it is. We cannot go backwards and assert that it proves that someone created it to be 1.618 and not 2.4 or 3.8. The fact that φ=1.618 favored the emergence of life, does not prove that someone 'made' that ratio for us.
It's like the story where amoebas grow in a shallow pool created by an accident (on the highway for instance) and say one to another "Look! If that pool was smaller we couldn't have grown in here, and if it was larger other predators would have eaten us. It's exactly the right size for us to grow. Thus, a creator has built this pool for us."
One could just as well argue that an infinity of multiverses jumped out of quantum vacuum simultaneously with our own 14Bya, with each having a different set of values for universal constants. We just happen to live in the one (or one of the worlds) where the constants like φ enable the emergence of life.
Like quantum physics, math moves in mysterious ways.
To invoke God for anything at all is in my mind naive. Like you ttdtt, I am a designer (landscape) and use it all the time because it works. it just looks right!
To my delight I have just measured an existing courtyard for a new design and the width to length is 8m to to 13m...... ideal! The golden ratio is 1.618 to 1 or any two Fibonacci numbers next to each other.
It just happens to occur in nature very frequently, to me it says that this is the way nature has found to conveniently package itself and the ratios always look right at a subliminal level; it is a proportion we all find attractive. Our teeth if they are regular and complete are a good example of the golden section. Perhaps we all like it because because it is common.
The golden ratio, like Pi, is fundamental, it would be discerned even if there was no "nature", - anywhere in the cosmos, even outside the universe. It is beyond divine, it just is.
The golden ratio is 1.618 to 1 or any two Fibonacci numbers next to each other.
I would just like to underscore that Fibonacci numbers has very little to do with it (see the video on page 1). Start with any two positive integers that you like, the series will NOT be the Fibonacci series, but the ratio of any two consecutive numbers in the series will converge on the 1.618...
Sample:
Lets start the series with two numbers: 12345 and 57890. Each new number is the sum of the previous two, and we'll calculate the ratio of each pair on the series:
n1=12345, n2=67890, and gr=5.49939246658566 n1=67890, n2=80235, and gr=1.18183826778612 n1=80235, n2=148125, and gr=1.84613946532062 n1=148125, n2=228360, and gr=1.54167088607595 n1=228360, n2=376485, and gr=1.64864687335786 n1=376485, n2=604845, and gr=1.60655803020041 n1=604845, n2=981330, and gr=1.62244872653324 n1=981330, n2=1586175, and gr=1.61635229739231 n1=1586175, n2=2567505, and gr=1.61867700600501 n1=2567505, n2=4153680, and gr=1.61778847558233 n1=4153680, n2=6721185, and gr=1.61812778066678 n1=6721185, n2=10874865, and gr=1.61799816550207 n1=10874865, n2=17596050, and gr=1.61804767231593 n1=17596050, n2=28470915, and gr=1.61802876213696 n1=28470915, n2=46066965, and gr=1.61803598514484 n1=46066965, n2=74537880, and gr=1.61803322619582 n1=74537880, n2=120604845, and gr=1.61803428001977 n1=120604845, n2=195142725, and gr=1.61803387749472 n1=195142725, n2=315747570, and gr=1.61803403124559 n1=315747570, n2=510890295, and gr=1.61803397251798 n1=510890295, n2=826637865, and gr=1.61803399494993 n1=826637865, n2=1337528160, and gr=1.61803398638169 n1=1337528160, n2=2164166025, and gr=1.61803398965447 n1=2164166025, n2=3501694185, and gr=1.61803398840438 n1=3501694185, n2=5665860210, and gr=1.61803398888187 n1=5665860210, n2=9167554395, and gr=1.61803398869948 n1=9167554395, n2=14833414605, and gr=1.61803398876915 n1=14833414605, n2=24000969000, and gr=1.61803398874254 n1=24000969000, n2=38834383605, and gr=1.6180339887527 n1=38834383605, n2=62835352605, and gr=1.61803398874882 n1=62835352605, n2=101669736210, and gr=1.6180339887503 n1=101669736210, n2=164505088815, and gr=1.61803398874974 n1=164505088815, n2=266174825025, and gr=1.61803398874995 n1=266174825025, n2=430679913840, and gr=1.61803398874987 n1=430679913840, n2=696854738865, and gr=1.6180339887499 n1=696854738865, n2=1127534652705, and gr=1.61803398874989 n1=1127534652705, n2=1824389391570, and gr=1.6180339887499 n1=1824389391570, n2=2951924044275, and gr=1.61803398874989 n1=2951924044275, n2=4776313435845, and gr=1.6180339887499 n1=4776313435845, n2=7728237480120, and gr=1.61803398874989 n1=7728237480120, n2=12504550915965, and gr=1.61803398874989 n1=12504550915965, n2=20232788396085, and gr=1.61803398874989
The numbers above (n1, n2) are NOT Fibonacci numbers. It's just a property of the series (the next number is the sum of the previous two).
Another poster mentioned that if you have a piece of paper in the 1 : 1.618 proportion and then fold it in half, you get the same proportion. Yep. If you look at the video on p1, the "golden ratio" is exactly this:
[1 + sqrt(5)] / 2
Now, imagine a piece of paper in this exact ratio. If you half the largest side, and then take the ratio again, taking the reciprocal of the fraction (because the previous shorter end is now the longer end), you end up with:
4/ [1 + sqrt(5)]
or 1.2360679774997896964091736687313To check this in practice, I modified the above test to take the "halfing ratio", and here is what you come out with:
n1=12345, n2=67890, and gr=5.49939246658566, half ratio: 0.363676535572249. n1=67890, n2=80235, and gr=1.18183826778612, half ratio: 1.69227893064124. n1=80235, n2=148125, and gr=1.84613946532062, half ratio: 1.0833417721519. n1=148125, n2=228360, and gr=1.54167088607595, half ratio: 1.29729374671571. n1=228360, n2=376485, and gr=1.64864687335786, half ratio: 1.21311606040081. n1=376485, n2=604845, and gr=1.60655803020041, half ratio: 1.24489745306649. n1=604845, n2=981330, and gr=1.62244872653324, half ratio: 1.23270459478463. n1=981330, n2=1586175, and gr=1.61635229739231, half ratio: 1.23735401201002. n1=1586175, n2=2567505, and gr=1.61867700600501, half ratio: 1.23557695116465. n1=2567505, n2=4153680, and gr=1.61778847558233, half ratio: 1.23625556133356. n1=4153680, n2=6721185, and gr=1.61812778066678, half ratio: 1.23599633100413. n1=6721185, n2=10874865, and gr=1.61799816550207, half ratio: 1.23609534463186. n1=10874865, n2=17596050, and gr=1.61804767231593, half ratio: 1.23605752427391. n1=17596050, n2=28470915, and gr=1.61802876213696, half ratio: 1.23607197028968. n1=28470915, n2=46066965, and gr=1.61803598514484, half ratio: 1.23606645239164. n1=46066965, n2=74537880, and gr=1.61803322619582, half ratio: 1.23606856003954. n1=74537880, n2=120604845, and gr=1.61803428001977, half ratio: 1.23606775498944. n1=120604845, n2=195142725, and gr=1.61803387749472, half ratio: 1.23606806249118. n1=195142725, n2=315747570, and gr=1.61803403124559, half ratio: 1.23606794503597. n1=315747570, n2=510890295, and gr=1.61803397251798, half ratio: 1.23606798989987. n1=510890295, n2=826637865, and gr=1.61803399494993, half ratio: 1.23606797276338. n1=826637865, n2=1337528160, and gr=1.61803398638169, half ratio: 1.23606797930894. n1=1337528160, n2=2164166025, and gr=1.61803398965447, half ratio: 1.23606797680876. n1=2164166025, n2=3501694185, and gr=1.61803398840438, half ratio: 1.23606797776374. n1=3501694185, n2=5665860210, and gr=1.61803398888187, half ratio: 1.23606797739897. n1=5665860210, n2=9167554395, and gr=1.61803398869948, half ratio: 1.2360679775383. n1=9167554395, n2=14833414605, and gr=1.61803398876915, half ratio: 1.23606797748508. n1=14833414605, n2=24000969000, and gr=1.61803398874254, half ratio: 1.23606797750541. n1=24000969000, n2=38834383605, and gr=1.6180339887527, half ratio: 1.23606797749764. n1=38834383605, n2=62835352605, and gr=1.61803398874882, half ratio: 1.23606797750061. n1=62835352605, n2=101669736210, and gr=1.6180339887503, half ratio: 1.23606797749948. n1=101669736210, n2=164505088815, and gr=1.61803398874974, half ratio: 1.23606797749991. n1=164505088815, n2=266174825025, and gr=1.61803398874995, half ratio: 1.23606797749974. n1=266174825025, n2=430679913840, and gr=1.61803398874987, half ratio: 1.23606797749981. n1=430679913840, n2=696854738865, and gr=1.6180339887499, half ratio: 1.23606797749978. n1=696854738865, n2=1127534652705, and gr=1.61803398874989, half ratio: 1.23606797749979. n1=1127534652705, n2=1824389391570, and gr=1.6180339887499, half ratio: 1.23606797749979. n1=1824389391570, n2=2951924044275, and gr=1.61803398874989, half ratio: 1.23606797749979. n1=2951924044275, n2=4776313435845, and gr=1.6180339887499, half ratio: 1.23606797749979. n1=4776313435845, n2=7728237480120, and gr=1.61803398874989, half ratio: 1.23606797749979. n1=7728237480120, n2=12504550915965, and gr=1.61803398874989, half ratio: 1.23606797749979. n1=12504550915965, n2=20232788396085, and gr=1.61803398874989, half ratio: 1.23606797749979.In summary, if a piece of paper is in the golden ratio, and you half it, then it is no longer in the golden ratio. Sorry.
I still don't see what the big deal is with this ratio. You are just noticing a pattern in mathematics. That is like saying: "I think it is amazing that a flower grew in a field of flowers."
How can anyone look at the deep structure of reality
