Sign of apostasy
‘This is a sign of apostasy,’ they responded.
I hope that doesn't surprise you. For what I can see, maybe what they had in mind in bringing "key people" to meet with you may be more of an intimidation tactic. I'm glad that you were able to talk to them exactly as you feel.
The JWs really are nervy with their police-like attitude thinking they have the right to give somebody the third degree. In your case, they want to “reason” with you so as to avoid a JC.
I also think you have already said too much in this two hours (too long) visit....Going forward, I think you should just not answer the door. Do you really want to play these games? Just ignore them and move on with your life. The poster THE FALL GUY gave good advice.
Before they DF you , why not beat them to the gun and DF them by DA yourself from the religion of JW`s for their apostasy.
After all they claim they were appointed in 1919? as the F&DS by what they were teaching then right ?
Well their is nothing that they teach now that resembles what they were teaching in 1919 and if you did start spruiking what they taught in 1919 you would be DF`d
Just a thought Ireneus
Best of luck to you
Thank you for all the nice suggestions you all made. I will go by them. But I am sure they won’t come back because I could sense the degree of discouragement they themselves felt talking to me. I was using their own tactic—sticking to just one subject. They wanted me to be diverted on to the subject of the channel God is using today. But I was adamantly sticking to only one subject—Parable of Sheep and Goat. All religions were desperately trying to find a reason why we should love our neighbor. But this simple parable (which requires no interpretation) tells humans do not need a reason to love fellow humans. Humans love other humans because we are humans—that’s all. Every human being knows what being human is all about because it is our very nature. When someone gives us untruth, hurt, and ugly behavior it makes us disturbed because our very nature is truth, benevolence and beauty which are our core features. To unfold according to our very nature why do we need the help of an organization? One can choose to unfold or to not unfold, and God doesn't interfere with his choice.
Remember how the elders were told by the GB in magazines "NOT to be spiritual policemen"?
Yep, well, when it comes to rounding up those who don't want to attend, they become SWAT team policemen!
Always remember that "less is more". The LESS you say, the MORE effective you will be. This is a simple and good line to say "Thankyou, but because I value Truth and Honesty, my conscience will not allow me to attend at the moment. I trust that you will respect this, and respect appropriate boundaries. Take care"
Then say no more when they push. If necessary, simply repeat that line over and over mildly.
Unless you are getting some perverse entertainment from your sessions with the lemmings, you are wasting your time. They are buffaloed.
*** w81 9/1 p. 21 par. 23 Happy Are Those Whom God Corrects ***
23 Usually a committee of three elders is designated to handle a case of grave wrongdoing. They do not act as mere judges or ‘spiritual policemen.’ They are shepherds of the flock, and prove to be such when dealing with an individual wrongdoer. A shepherd of literal sheep does not display a spirit of vengeance, harshness or faultfinding. Nor should the elders. They are there to help, not to condemn. (Jude 23) Their goal is to turn the sinner back from his way, if that is possible.—Jas. 5:19, 20.
*** w75 8/1 p. 474 par. 14 Elders Presiding in a Fine Way ***
14 All the elders should appreciate their position in relation to the other brothers and sisters in the congregation. They are not spiritual bosses or spiritual policemen. They do not have to pry into the lives of other members of the congregation or concern themselves with the personal problems of every brother and sister.
*** w66 9/1 p. 539 A Provision for Spiritual Help in Times of Need ***We all know better
It is important for those in the congregation to appreciate why this congregation committee exists. These men should not be viewed as spiritual policemen to be feared. True, the overseer and the two other brothers on the committee watch out for the spiritual welfare of the sheeplike ones in their care, but they are to do so as loving shepherds, tenderly, and not in an arbitrary and dictatorial manner. They are not bosses, but are servants.
Several years ago, a few conversations on this board noted that elders and elder bodies differ. Frankly, there is no uniform way to deal with "apostates" from the JW point of view, because interpretation and other variables are at play.Now that CO's are used to make local decisions directly to insulate Bethel from lawsuits and liability, that is even more the case.
So first of all, BE CAREFUL. Maybe they'll go after you, maybe they won't. For them to say that this is the beginning of apostasy should put you on notice. I am unsure if you want to stay in and fade or not. If you do, you have to commit to playing the game somewhat.
I actually like the suggestion of employing the mental health card, if you want to. I am all for using misdirection against them.
Lastly, all it takes for someone to get DF'd or to stay is momentum within the elder body and the CO that they consult. Some have been DF'd for less, or more. Your mileage will surely vary. Just be on guard.
FastJehu, all of those are from before 2000 making them old light, even apostate information. You should know better!
"they want to reason with you so as to avoid a JC"
Which means, when translated, "they want to confirm your Apostate™ tendencies so they can announce that you are No Longer One of Jehovah's Witnesses™ at the very next Meeting™."
It seems they've done just that. By saying "This is a sign of apostasy", they've confirmed that they can go ahead and make the announcement. No JC required.