Michael the Archangel and Jesus same person? Start of Blondie researching

by blondie 11 Replies latest jw friends

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  blondie

  I was reading something else on JWN and remembered why I started questioning WTS definite statements of fact.

  I was asked by a non-jw to prove these 2 points from the scripture:

  1. When did the 2,300 days in Daniel 8:13,14 start? (I knew nothing about that so I knew it would take some research)

  2. Was Jesus also known as Michael the Archangel in the Bible?

  This one I thought was a cinch. But as I researched the WT publications (pre-1999), I was surprised and realized the WT answer was couched in weasel words that the WTS could use those words to say they did not say it was a fact in case a non-jw pointed this out. But an indoctrinated jw would not see that the WTS answer danced around the point, nowhere in the bible does it say point blank that Jesus is the same as Michael the Archangel.

  This what I found (weasel words highlighted)

  ​ https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-michael-the-archangel-jesus/
  

  This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005160?q=jesus+michael+archangel&p=sen

  This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

  it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.*

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1969888?q=jesus+michael+archangel&p=sen

  Nonetheless, Jesus after his resurrection is still called Michael the archangel. (Jude 9;Rev. 12:7) And it appears that the exalted Jesus is referred to as an angel in Revelation 20:1 for, as God’s king, he is the logical one to bind Satan and the demons. So evidently, the term “angel” as designating an office may be used in a general sense to refer to all heavenly spirit creatures.

  ----

  That started me questioning and researching everything the WTS said. I was surprised how often I just accepted what the WT said as fact when there was no evidence in the bible and never checked.

  When you were a believing jw, did you realize that the phrase "governing body" does not occur anywhere in the bible? Not even in Acts 15 (I invite you to look and prove it to yourself). Even the WTS never puts quotes around that phrase when just citing (not quoting) Acts 15. They want trusting jws not to check that scripture at the same time the WTS uses the phrase "governing body") (after all many can quote it right?). How many other times did we when believing jws think to check?
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  Acluetofindtheuser

  The problem is they have to have an answer for everything. Why can't they just say, we don't know?

  For some reason every important mystery character in the Bible is associated with Jesus with the WT.

  Michael and Abaddon (angel of the abyss) = Jesus

  Why can't other angels have important roles too?

  I knew of a witness that said he had a problem with the Michael is Jesus teaching but he was ok with that. He believed in the faith so much that if the organization was called Yahweh's Witnesses he'd still follow it.
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  SAHS

  “Acluetofindtheuser”: “The problem is they have to have an answer for everything. Why can't they just say, we don't know?”

  Well, the WTS can just say whatever idea they want for that day and claim that they are “divinely inspired.” And then, when they have to change (“update”) it, they can still claim to be inspired because “the light keeps on getting brighter . . . .” (yada, yada, yada).

  So they’re evidently™ always inspired – at the time they say it, that is.
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  Dagney

  What did somebody write on here...

  ”it’s not what the Bible says. It’s what the Watchtower says the Bible says.”

  A don’t ya just love “it’s logical to conclude...”. I’ve always loved that one.
• 

  smiddy3

  Jehovah`s Witnesses claim to be Bible students but if they are , they are very lazy students of the Bible not checking anything for themselves and not like the Bereans who checked everything that was being said to them to see if it was so .
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  SadElder

  Evidently then we here surely are likely to conclude that the Watchtower is full of it (italics ours).
  
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  belogical

  My Bible says

  "In the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and the word was AN ARCHANGEL

  It cant be much better than that
  
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  Bobcat

  Hi Blondie,

  I researched the 2300 evenings and mornings of Dan 8:13-14 in relation to the Jewish-Roman War of 66-73 AD. The connection to the Jewish-Roman War is Jesus' words at Mt 24:15 which connects the prophecy in Daniel about the abomination of desolation.

  So, based on that connection I took the related prophecies in Daniel and researched if I could find any relation with that 1st century war. You will find the research starting on this post (which is post # 232) and extending on down to post # 249, if you are interested.
• 

  truthlover123

  Blondie:

  I have never been able to reconcile that illogical idea of Jesus being Michael. Michael stood fast when Gabriel was trying to get to Daniel in Daniel 10:13 and he was called ONE of the foremost princes. If "ONE" he was in the company of more spiritual Princes... also known as archangels.... Michael is an archangel...
  

  Jesus was given a name better than all of them when he ascended to heaven.. yet in Revelation-where he is in heaven- is still called Jesus.. so I am a little confused with that one. Guess there is a reason for not knowing the New Name of Jesus.
  

  In Revelation 1: 1 Jesus sent his angel to tell John what was to take place. Jesus controlled the angels so why do they say he was Michael? And in Revelation, supposedly written 60 years after he went to heaven, the difference was shown by the fact Jesus was not called Michael! He was still known to us as Jesus.
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  Acluetofindtheuser

  Jesus is described in Revelation 19:12-13 as riding on a white horse with the armies of the heavens following him on white horses as well. We know this is Jesus because it says he is called by the name The Word of God. The gospel of John describes Jesus as the Word of God. It's Strange the same verse says he has a name written that no one knows but he himself. This proves that Jesus is not Michael the archangel. We know that other angel's name.