Question for SBF

by Fisherman 192 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • joe134cd

    Trust me with mormonisim all this comes at a price. The mormon church isn't as squeaky clean as you may think. For the money they extract from their members is peanuts for what they return, or give to the community. It's been proven it less than 1%. For many ex-mo this is a huge source of contention. Many having parted with hundreds of thousands of dollars.

  • Fisherman
    We do know they have a revenue problem and there is no apparent solution in sight.

    That's the point.

    However, a solution has been implemented. The solution is to cut expenses and for the pubs to donate at least something regularly by making them aware that they should donate. We will see if the implementation produces the cash.

  • LV101

    joe134cd - I hear ya! It is scary what adherents throw out to the Morman Church. They went to the business of my friend - her father's business -- told him he owed X amt. of dollars that they handed him on a piece of paper and he laughed in their face and tore it up. This was many yrs. ago. I have jack morman acquaintances and they've gone to their homes -- their non-believing mate husbands have told them to get off their property when their wives weren't interested. It's a joke but they are quite the collectors.

    I think some people love the social aspect and just have to belong to something. I do hear from my long-time non-attending brain-washed friend in Colo how the Mormans are the first to be on the scene of an emergency - etc. They must subsidize or something thru the Red Cross or one of the serious emergency/charities. There's no way the Mormans are first on the scene -- I try to contain myself when she tells me this nonsense but I'm sure they do a lot of charity as do other religions.

  • TD

    The mormon church isn't as squeaky clean as you may think.

    No they're not and my comments shouldn't be construed to mean otherwise. My only point is that churches who extract heavier contributions out of their members do so by harnessing human nature rather than fighting against it. I could have just as easily used the Catholic faith as an example. They are far from being squeaky clean as well, but they do understand that religion is first and foremost, an emotional need.

  • slimboyfat

    The "literature sales" are from one branch to another, not to the public. They are a feature of Watchtower management accounting, not a source of revenue.

  • LV101

    TD - No, they're not squeaky clean nor are any of them but it appeals to the nature of many and they're in awe of it! Your "harnessing human nature" - perfect!

  • _Morpheus

    Slim, i swear your cognitive dissonance is working overtime. You never even hinted that the wt sold books to other branchs in any of your dozens of posts on the 3 threads youve started regarding the wt finical crisis and its rediculious to even suggest that “other branchs” were what you meant. You flatly outlined that by withdrawing services (publications) jand by removing the upfront cost to pubs, they no longer donated enough to cover expenses. Period. You said it 10x at least. You have now accepted a third hand report that many branches have a surplus dispite not selling the literature and cutting way back on what they print.

    Which. Is. It.

    Make up your mind. We’ve gone round and round and im frankly dizzy. Its like trying to nail down water... but discussions with cult members usually are.

    Just admit you are cherry picking evidance that you like and that supports your HOPE that the org hs money woes and will therefore change. I dont begrudge you that hope, but im not going to let you pull a philosophical slight of hand and take both sides of an argument just to make yourself feel good about your hopes and dreams

  • slimboyfat

    I kind of did:

    Income in Britain from "literature production" (presumably sales of literature to other branches) has been declining rapidly. (Apparently this is how they count it - one branch pays another branch for literature) The United States, United Kingdom and Germany have all been mass exporters of Watchtower literature in the past. As this declines their surpluses may decline.
  • slimboyfat

    I don't hope JWs collapse. What I hope for is that they stop shunning and concentrate on positive aspects of their heritage that people can be proud of.

    In terms of growth or decline I am just interested in interesting developments. Until recently I probably had a more positive view of JW growth than many. I think they have done amazingly well to grow as much and as fast as they have. They are much more successful than the Mormons for example. They have been around 50 years less than the Mormons and yet have about twice as many active members. Plus JWs are much more evenly spread across the globe than Mormons.

    Watchtower was one of the most, or arguably the most successful publishing organisation the world has ever seen. The Watchtower magazine itself was the highest circulated, most translated, most read, studied and obeyed magazine the world has ever known. Their study books are among the most widely distributed and annotated texts in history. These are amazing achievements, and they did this in the post-war west against the backdrop of declining interest in religion in society in general. Their growth is all the more impressive compared with the sharp declines of other churches over the same period. (I know there are other religious success stories, most prominently the Pentecostals. But frankly that was largely a political phenomenon in South America, and short lived in most other places.)

    It's the tremendous success of JWs in the twentieth century that makes their recent reversal all the more striking, and interesting... and for those of us who care, hopeful that certain things may change.

  • _Morpheus

    Slim, i dont want to appear to be failing to engage your points but i have a commitment tonight. When i get an oportunity i will pull relevant quotes from your other topics and posts but suffice to say jws could not now or ever sell to other branches. Thats a silly remark since branches distributed to publishers anyway. The bottome line was always your claim that pubs donated because of literature and barring that the org had no business model.. right???????????????? Now you have readily accepted the claim that many branches in finically well off countries, the USA and UK included, have a surplus as of today even without selling literature for 20 years. Focus now.... those two claims are mutually contradictory. Disavow one so i can at least pretend to follow along.

    I do promise to continue, maybe later tonight, more likely tomorrow. Windmills must be tilted and all that...

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