Bloodless Medicine....not all its cracked up to be.

by Lee Elder 31 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • Mephis

    Thanks for posting article DoC.

  • ILoveTTATT2


    I guess I didn't understand the point of your whole post then.

    Perhaps you meant: Good hospital, bad blood management people?

    I understand very little from the article. If the courts determined that it was the woman's own fault she died, then why give her any money?

  • talesin

    After looking up a the definition of 'negligent misrepresentation', I can see why the jury awarded this nominal amount.

    From the article:

    Connor said the plaintiffs contended that Anderson had been bleeding heavily before she underwent surgery, and that much of her blood loss could have been by prevented by taking her to surgery immediately.
    “She was clearly bleeding in the emergency room; they commented about their inability to do an intravaginal exam because of her bleeding,” said Connor. “The problem was that the records did not show how much she was losing; part of our complaint was that they weren’t documenting that.”

    With its expertise in bloodless medicine, the hospital had an added responsibility to determine how urgently the surgery was needed. Having been in the same situation (waiting for surgery at 7 am for a D&C due to massive bleeding), it's the doctor's responsibility to determine whether the D&C should be done immediately. Nurses constantly monitoring and checking your blood flow (has it gone from gushing to a trickle? Is it stopped?).

    It seems to me that is where the negligence would come in. Because they are 'specialists' in bloodless surgery, they should have been aware that she was 'bleeding out' while waiting for her D&C, and performed the surgery on an emergency basis, instead of scheduling the OR and waiting.

    Here's the info. on negligent misrepresentation:


    Fraud - Negligent Misrepresentation

    1Elements and Case Citations

    It is well settled that “[a] claim for negligent misrepresentation requires the plaintiff to demonstrate

    1. the existence of a special or privity-like relationship imposing a duty on the defendant to impart correct information to the plaintiff;
    2. that the information was incorrect; and
    3. reasonable reliance on the information.”

    Mandarin Trading Ltd. v. Wildenstein, 16 N.Y.3d 173, 180 (2011).

    “A special relationship may be established by ‘persons who possess unique or specialized expertise, or who are in a special position of confidence and trust with the injured party such that reliance on the negligent misrepresentation is justified.’” Mandarin Trading Ltd. v. Wildenstein, 16 N.Y.3d 173, 180 (2011).

  • problemaddict 2
    problemaddict 2

    Great research Orphan Crow.

    Absolutely unbelievable. 100K is certainly a token amount. Being that the jury did in fact believe she was the greatest architect of her own death by not allowing a full suite of possible tools at the doctors disposal, it seems the sum was essentially to backstop further action, since the hospital seems to have been poorly run and not handled her case very well. You would think a bloodless specialist group would have it a little better!

    Of course as OC pointed out, this is no doubt the base for all dubs in the area to get medical treatment.

    In fairness, it sounds like such a freak issue, that there really is no winning in this situation.

  • OrphanCrow
    IloveTTATT: I guess I didn't understand the point of your whole post then.

    I guess you didn't. Let me spell it out for you.

    The bloodless clinics in the States have been established by Jehovah's Witnesses.

    The bloodless clinics are operated by Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Bloodless surgery and blood management ARE the Jehovah's Witnesses. In other words...the WATCHTOWER IS bloodless medicine. Bloodless medicine IS the WATCHTOWER.

    So...when you read all those news articles extolling the virtues of bloodless surgery and all that...saying how wonderful and how fantastic bloodless surgery and blood management is...always remember that you are reading Watchtower propaganda.

    Bloodless medical clinics are owned, controlled, and operated by Watchtower drones.

    So...what it is that I am saying... that there is no such thing as "the doctors" and "the medical profession" existing separately when it comes to the JWs and bloodless clinics. The "medical profession" does not exist 'out there' and the JWs in opposition to it. If a JW chooses to utilize medical treatment from a "bloodless clinic", then they are choosing to be treated by the Watchtower itself.

    There is no separation between "the medical profession" and the "JWs" when you are speaking of bloodless treatment. The Watchtower IS bloodless treatment. They are one and the very same f***ing thing.

    And...I haven't even commented on the quality of care to be expected from people who really should be selling airline tickets instead of making life and death medical decisions for people. I don't think I should have to spell that one out, too, do I?

  • steve2

    OrphanCrow, thanks for the background information.

    So, if I am to understand you correctly, OrphanCrow, the JW litigants in effect are taking other JWs to court - because they are part of the Atlantis Medical Center.

    The cited article noted a lot of ill will towards the Witnesses by medical staff - I do not get impression the Center is run by JWs. (I appreciate you have done your homework - so please don't view my conclusions as questioning your investigations in this regard - more like seeking clarification. Thanks.)

  • ILoveTTATT2

    Orphan Crow,

    I am so terribly sorry that I didn't read your first post in a detailed manner.


    That's all I can say.


    I want to puke...

    There are tons of people hating the Atlanta Medical center... It seems like it is a very bad hospital.

    Your investigation was spot-on. It's an extremely perverse thing that certain JW's are profiting from the deaths of people.

    It is shocking that there are actual CONTRACTS for patient blood management between Hospitals and the WT headquarters.

  • ILoveTTATT2


    Effectively. The trial comes to JW's vs other JW's, who may be indirectly related to the actual case.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    I can concur with OrphanCrows assessment. I work in research related to a medical center with specialties in child cancer care and have attended some talks about surgeries as well as blood and organ transplants.

    To put it mildly: doctors won't prescribe a blood transfusion unless absolutely necessary. It's considered an organ transplant with slightly higher availability but equal in matching and possible rejection issues as eg a kidney.

    Doctors will do a LOT to preserve "own" blood and hospitals will make sure it doesn't spoil (temperature differences are a key issue). Losing this much blood is critical with or without the availability of external blood, the doctor should've recognized that (that's where the 100k comes from I guess) but it is her own fault of both waiting for and then refusing treatment.

  • OrphanCrow
    steve2: I do not get impression the Center is run by JWs. (I appreciate you have done your homework - so please don't view my conclusions as questioning your investigations in this regard - more like seeking clarification. Thanks.)

    No problem...and I am not surprised. That is exactly what I am getting at when I make these posts that link Watchtower people (JW "professionals") with the bloodless treatment that is touted so highly in the news media. And as the preferred treatment within the pages of Watchtower literature.

    The bloodless treatments, bloodless clinics, blood management...are ALL operated by Jehovah's Witnesses. Watchtower trained people.

    When I first started looking at the "whats" and the "whys" and all of that in connection with "bloodless medicine" and all of its morphs etc....I thought that it meant something in the medical world not connected to the Watchtower Society.

    The Watchtower Society's fingerprints are all over the bloodless world, from start to finish, and from bottom up, inside and out.

    Ilove: OMFG.
    That's all I can say.
    I want to puke...

    I apologize. I thought you were being deliberately obtuse. Sorry for being short.

    Yes. I think you got it now.

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