by minimus 35 Replies latest jw friends
Many of Christendom's doctrines are the Doctrines of Men.
We are informed in The Book that there is an Almighty God;
that there is a Firstborn Son of God;
that there is a created Family who occupy the heavens;
that Man and Woman were created from dust to inhabit Earth.
Not as much detail as we'd like has been provided to fully satisfy our curiosity. At least, not yet.
More to come in our very, very, very long future.
I don't see a Trinity as taught by men anywhere.
One would think that someone with all power in heaven and earth would be almighty....unless all means some.
Why did Jesus accept worship and honour due only to " the Lord of me and the God of me" as in John 20?
No one who sees Jesus as "the God" has any trouble worshipping Him and honoring Him as they do the Father.
The trinity is like the Star Wars movies. In Star Wars and the Empire strikes back you think Darth Vader is the baddest dude in the Galaxy . Its not till Return of the Jedi you realize it was the Emperor.
The new testament is the slow realization that Jesus was that second touchable, seeable manifestion of god in the old testament. Its not a simple concept and you have a to have an understanding of the entire bible as a whole, not just selectively reading verses, to really see it.
I have found it to be a real waste of time trying to explain it here.
All very insightful comments
I am quite fond of understanding that men teach various ideas and use the Bible to support them.
The Bible can be used to support hatred, love, abortion, no-abortion, a Trinity, no-Trinity.
I think you get the idea. All teachings are from men, and the Bible is just their tool to say "SEE, IT SAYS SO...."
Do I think the Bible teaches a Trinity as some religions teach? No, but it doesn't straight up teach that God's active force (or spirit) and Jesus are definitely not part of each other. Still, it sounds like crazy shit that men made up.
Yes.
You didn't ask for extended debate on the subject so I'll just tell you my answer to the question you asked and leave it at that.
You can express why you think this trinity is biblically-based since you’ve already expressed a yes or no
What most people don’t realize is the New Testament books were written to push a sects ideas and then later books were written to destroy that idea etc.. One example is their was a sect that believed the Christ was a Seperate deity to Jesus the man and at his baptism this Christ entered into his body ie the Dove. Then when Jesus died the Christ left him ie” why have you forsaken me?!” 1john was later written to refute this idea.
The trinity was much the same, different ideas to the nature of Jesus and finally ended up with some what of a trinity by 325 and then refined more after.
The doctrine of the Trinity states that within the nature of the one true God there are three distinct persons – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Entire books have been written on this subject. As a thumbnail sketch, I would point to the following:
One God: The Bible says that there is only one God. (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4)
The Father: There is a person called the Father who is identified as God. (John 6:27; Ephesians 5:20; and close to 20 other verses). Of course, JWs have no quarrel with this.
The Son: Jesus is not an angel: Hebrews 1 clearly teaches that Jesus is not an angel, which contradicts the WT’s Jesus = Michael teaching.
Several “Jehovah only” verses are applied to Jesus in the New Testament:
Psalm 102:24-27…..Hebrews 1:8-12
Isaiah 44:24 (Jehovah alone stretched out the heavens; no one was with him)…. John 1:3 (all things were made through Jesus; without him, nothing was made).
Revelation 1:8….. Revelation 21:6; 22:13 (Alpha and Omega)
Isaiah 44:6…. Revelation 1:17; 2:8; 22:13-16 (first and the last)
Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 18:31….. 1 Corinthians 10:4 (Israel’s only spiritual Rock)
Isaiah 54:5… 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 21:9 (spiritual husband)
Isaiah 43:11; Hosea 13:4… Acts 4:12 (spiritual Savior)
Psalm 10:16… 1 Timothy 6:14-15; Revelation 10:16 (eternal King)
The positional subordination of the Son to the Father and the human limitations cited by the WT (not knowing the day or hour of his return, for example) is a part of the Trinity doctrine and is based on the dual nature of Christ as both God and man.
The Holy Spirit:
The Holy Spirit displays attributes of personhood:
--Has a mind (Romans 8:27)
--Has a will (1 Corinthians 12:11)
--Experiences emotions (Ephesians 4:30)
--Issues commands, speaks, and uses first person pronouns (Acts 13:2; 8:29; 16:7; 21:11)
The Holy Spirit is explicitly called God in Acts 5:3-4 and 2 Corinthians 3:17
Since the Roman Catholic Church originated the formal Trinity doctrine, I feel that they provide the best summary of it:
"St. Jerome says, in a well-known phrase: "The true profession of the mystery of the Trinity is to own that we do not comprehend it"
"Moreover, our Lord's words, Matthew 11:27, "No one knoweth the Son, but the Father," seem to declare expressly that the plurality of Persons in the Godhead is a truth entirely beyond the scope of any created intellect. The Fathers supply many passages in which the incomprehensibility of the Divine Nature is affirmed."
If it's a mystery which is incomprehensible and entirely beyond the scope of all created intellect......
