They have sold $1 billion dollars worth of property in the last ten years...they are not skint at all.
Can Someone Explain To Me, Are The Org In Debt Or Rich?
by pale.emperor 39 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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joe134cd
I believe at this moment they are very cash wealthy. I remember a comment been made about "never in Wt history have they had so much money and their operating expenses been so low". I think the real concern is long term sustainability. I think the 3 biggest concerns to long term sustainability has to be
(1) Donations obviously
(2) sex abuse compensation. Just how big this will get is any body's guess but I would suggest it's at the very least going to hurt them.
(3) Loss of it tax free charity status. Its a possibility but just thought I'd put it out there.
Weather Wt has alloted this existing money in anticipation of the 3 things above, and is still pleading for donations just for the day to day running costs is anyone's guess.
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blondie
After selling their properties and spend the money, what then, where will the income come from? Donations....from poor people....interest...on what if money is spent?
I worked in facilities management, 11 large institutions, 18 medium institutions, 10 smaller institutions. After built, money to maintain. Even living facilities, stipends, food, transportation, for volunteer workers. Imagine prison system...
Asset rich but cash flow poor is an accurate description, one I have given on here for the last 15 years.
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wannaexit
They like to pretend they are poor, but they are rich. How rich, no one really can know for sure.
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Chook
I love how they promote to R&F to pay taxes yet they go to extraordinary lengths to avoid paying any tax. It's ALWAYS about the money!
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Dagney
I think their coffers are full at the moment. But they saw the writing on the wall years ago. They know there is only so much income they can count on going forward. They tied that one up nicely with the congregation monthly tithe. They cut the out flow of cash by cutting various full time positions (missionaries/special pioneers/DO's etc.) throughout the world and reducing staff at the Bethels. They cut expenses all around by modernizing...especially reducing the ridiculous amount of printing they used to do. They are streamlining their properties for the best monetary reasons. No matter what you might think, they are not concerned about growth or how these changes affect the faithful. They know the real numbers. The whole world knows the numbers...they have the worse retention for born ins. That won't change and the old timers are dying off. They know their day in the sun is over...there will be no significant growth. They will retain the ones who need them, who need a high control/cult to help them live.
They are developing their own in house attorneys I'm sure to help defer outgoing legals costs for the ongoing court cases. Having to pay out big bucks in court cases will be their biggest expense. I hope the hits keep coming. They need to pay for their negligence.
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konceptual99
Spot on blondie. The change driven by the general move to digital means less revenue from publication donations This is offset by the cashing in of real estate assets but in the long term they have to balance the books with money coming in and expenditure. I think they are also hunkering down in case of a change to their tax status and from any exposure through litigation related to child abuse.
Aside from the economies of scale of centralising printing in Europe in Germany,I think part of the reason for the UK downsize was Brexit exposing the UK as potentially being able to change the tax status without the protection of European legislation. I am sure it wasn't a major aspect but still there in the back of their minds.
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Crazyguy
Thier moves seemed to quick, one way then the other. First they were going to build build build , then all of a sudden it was stop it all and reduce costs big time. I think this was telling that they were running out of cash.
It my personal opinion that someone informed the men in the ivory tower that not only were they running out of money but people to donate as well. People are leaving in droves and so many that are left are poor. Now that they have cut costs and sold property thier probably fine at this time.
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berrygerry
2 points.
1.
Somewhat under Russell, but especially under Rutherford, WT became a sales company.(Letter from WT to sister in 1923 - in Letters to BOE)
WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY
( 31 FOREIGN BRANCHES)
18 CONCORD STREET, BROOKLYN, N.Y, U.S.A.
Miss R D Goodrich
Hattiesburg
Miss
Jan 16, 1923
Dear Sister:-
You are engaged in the most blessed service of any creatures on earth. The Society wishes to encourage you to continue joyfully in that work. For some time we have been aware of your difficulty in making expenses, considering the selling price of the books and the commission allowed therefor. We believe the Lord is arranging to overcome this difficulty, to permit a wider distribution of his truth.
Having established a plant at Brooklyn to manufacture the books, and having sent a number of competent brethren here to do the work, it seems that the Lord is preparing for a wider witness ; and we must be ready for the occasion. It will be your part to put the books into the hands of the people.
We are pleased to advise you that the Society is arranging to ship all books to the colporteurs freight prepaid, thus making the price of books to colporteurs uniform all over the United States. The Lord has made it possible for the price to be reduced; hence after February 1 the price of the Harp Study Course and the seven volumes of STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES to the public will be $2.87. The regular colporteurs in cities will be allowed a commission of $1.22 for such sales. Colporteurs who will undertake to canvass isolated territory be allowed a commission of $1.52 for the above set. Like favorable prices will be made on all the books, as will be seen from our price list, to be provided shortly. Four sales per day will net you a comfortable income, enabling you to meet all expenses.
Since the apostles urge us to greater diligence and energy, and since it is our privilege to aid others to get into the service, we suggest that if you know of any who could enter the service, you encourage them to engage quickly in the colporteur work. Such will be for their spiritual welfare. We hope to see at least a thousand colporteurs in the field during the New Year. 1923. Let us ask the Lord to increase this army. He has invited us to pray the Master of the harvest to send more workers into the field. Let us all with gladness strive to make this the most wonderful year for the advertising of the King and his kingdom.
Praying the Lord's blessing may continue with you richly, and with much love and best wishes, we remain
Your brethren in Christ,
Watch Tower B. & T. Society
Letter: WTBTS to Mrs. Roy D. Goodrich, 1 / 16/23The Jimmy Swaggart case had a definite impact: conversion of sales of material to donations, begun in 1990, and completed globally by 2000.
That conversion notwithstanding, the digital reality lambasted every single print media. Efforts to monetize digital are an investment in a dry hole.
Watch Tower is no different.
The Jan 1976 KM, page 8 (on WT Library), contains the US Branch letter boasting of Jehovah's backing:
The Watchtower has obviously had Jehovah’s backing since its first printing of 6,000 copies in July of 1879, when it was known as Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence. Although the magazine has not been supported by financial aid through commercial advertising, the annual subscription rate has always been very reasonable. At the start it was a monthly magazine and the subscription rate was $.50. This was increased to $.60 in 1891. Then in the November 1891 issue there appeared a notice that, beginning with January 1, 1892, the magazine would change from a monthly magazine of 16 pages to a semi-monthly one of 28 pages with an annual subscription rate of $1.00. The subscription rate remained unchanged until August 1, 1971, when increased prices of paper and mailing caused the subscription rate to go up to $1.50 a year.
Because of the effectiveness of magazines as instruments to get the truth into the hands of the people the Society’s equipment is geared to increased magazine distribution. Three new M.A.N. presses are being installed at Watchtower Farms. These, along with a large Cottrell press recently transferred from the Brooklyn factory, bring the total of presses at Watchtower Farms to fourteen. These are used exclusively to print magazines, and so we are ready for even greater increase.
How about paper? There is no shortage at the present, and so we are ready to do our part in the thirty-eighth annual Watchtower subscription campaign. We are confident that Jehovah will richly bless this campaign as he has all others.
Your brothers,
BROOKLYN BRANCH OFFICEJehovah's backing had meant that The Watchtower and Awake! were each being produced semi-monthly, with 32 pages each.
In addition, each convention would have new releases of at least 2 books, or else 1 book and a number of new brochures, tracts, videos, musical or dramatic cassettes.
Fast-forward to 2016.
The Watchtower and Awake!, public editions, reduced to monthly editions, and then again, to bi-monthly, as well as down to 16 pages.
2016 Convention releases - zero, nothing, nadaa.
2.
There is no question that WT has profited in selling their assets in Brooklyn. ( 2 billion according to this article ( Recently, Jared and a group of partners acquired several vast properties in Brooklyn from the Jehovah’s Witnesses, for two billion dollars; http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/22/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushners-power-play ).
This includes the fact that WT did not blast the Brooklyn real estate market with all of their properties at once, but instead, staggered their listings.
That having been said, Brooklyn has been undergoing a renaissance, unparalleled, probably on a global basis.
What shrewd real estate investor holds properties for decades, and sells at the beginning of a boom?
Summation: These f'ers are having their hedges called.
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OrphanCrow
I just spent a bit of time reviewing the charity tax laws in Canada.
The Watchtower Society in Canada files tax as a charity and as such is governed by those laws. The GB may be the "guardians of doctrine" but when it comes to money, the CRA are the "guardians of $".
To ensure that a charity really does what a charity is supposed to do - collect money and spend that money on charitable activities - the CRA has what is called a "disbursement quota". The optimum disbursement quota is 20/80. In other words - 20 percent of incoming money can be spent on administration and expenses and 80% is to be directed towards charitable activities.
In Canada, the money spent on charitable activities can involve the transfer of donated money to a "qualified donee". The Canadian branch's qualified donee is the Watch Tower Bible and Tract in NY (or is it the Pennsylvania one? hard to keep track of all the corporate names).
If a charity wants to spend money on capital purchases or put money into buildings (Kingdom Halls) they have to receive written permission from the CRA.
I think that, in Canada at least, the charity tax laws, especially the disbursement quota, is what is driving the WT's demand for donations. And, the money being drained into expansion projects increases the amount they are required to put towards that 80% figure of charitable activities. Building projects don't necessarily qualify.
I hate tax law. It makes my brain hurt.
*to add - the question - "are you under any parent organization?"...or something like that...was answered "No". Huh. So the Canadian Branch apparently doesn't have a parent organization. They claim to be independent of the top WT corp. Not sure how that works. And all the directors claimed to be "arm's length" from all the other directors. Hmmmm.