But you know what? I can live a purposeful life just fine without Hume either.
Yes and I'm sure that doctors performing abortions daily in America can say the same thing.
Goodbye yhwh-Goodbye jesus
by fulltimestudent 40 Replies latest jw friends
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Vanderhoven7
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LoveUniHateExams
Goodbye yhwh-Goodbye jesus - but not 'goodbye Allah' and 'goodbye Muhammad'.
Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the UK and I'd like to see stats re Islamic growth in other countries.
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peacefulpete
Vanderhoven7... Hume's type of philosophy bent on of teasing meaning from semantics never appealed to me. I appreciate the mental exercise and precise definitions inherent in the enterprise but in the end the conclusions are often as subjective as the words chosen. "Materialist" for example is not a word most non-deists would choose to describe themselves as it falsely assumes the void of social values in people who are not convinced in the existence of gods. BTW There have been a number of equally clever philosophical rebuttals of Hume's conclusion that don't impress me any more than he does.
In this particular subject you seem passionate about, abortion. The choice of language is extremely revealing, you keep calling the aborted fetuses "babies" which is loaded with imagery and emotional impact that assume a conclusion, that fetal tissues are the same as babies. I'm not interested in changing your opinion about that as it is your conclusion to draw. The opposite view is likewise a conclusion someone is theirs to draw. Most of us (reflected in abortion laws) have nuanced perspectives that include details about the lateness of the development and health of the fetus and mother etc.
What I know is that the question of atheism or theism really doesn't determine how someone feels about this issue. It's more a matter of education, projected personal experience and possibly even genetics. If someone had the experience of losing a pregnancy that was highly anticipated and desired, they would naturally have more difficulty understanding why others would not place deep emotional significance to the early stages of pregnancy. I will also not discount the role genetics play in how the drive to reproduce is much stronger in some than others.
People of an opinion on this topic seek others that have a similar view to advocate for this view, a group identity forms. Not wrong or dangerous as long as it doesn't blind a person to the fact that others have a right to have different views.
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Vanderhoven7
The choice of language is extremely revealing, you keep calling the aborted fetuses "babies" which is loaded with imagery and emotional impact that assume a conclusion, that fetal tissues are the same as babies.
It is only easy to justify killing the unborn by determining that they are not human or not babies.
At what point in your thinking does a fetus become a human being deserving of protection.
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Fadeaway1962
god's moral compass didn't stop him from killings unborn babies when he brought the flood (I know it's just a myth)
When god's people entered the promised land and they were instructed to kill innocent men , women and children babies.
Armageddon again the murder of innocent children babies and the unborn.
If you believe the Bible is god's inspired word were is his moral compass.
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peacefulpete
Vanderhoven7.......It is only easy to justify killing the unborn by determining that they are not human or not babies.
You're not even trying to understand are you. Yes. To those who have concluded upon evidence that tissue following a genetic program is not yet a human being with sentience, ending that process is within the rights of the mother. No crime is committed if there is no individual being wronged. To those that insist that dna is the determinant of humanness, then I'm leaving millions of humans all over the couch through shed skin and mucous. Even a fully formed organ is not 'a human' and has no rights needing protection. No, it is the "mind" that suffers, the "mind" that contemplates it's existence, the mind that needs protection. Cells without a mind have no humanness. They are not humans.
Not until the 3rd trimester is there any potential at all that something akin to or arguably close to consciousness is possible. For me, in my estimation of available facts, that bears on the question of abortion.
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GrreatTeacher
I don't quite understand the current Christian obsession with abortion.
The church was never concerned about it for hundreds of years.
It's only been since about the 1980s that there has been any interest at all.
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Vanderhoven7
As I said, it is easy to justify killing the unborn if one determines that they are not human or not babies.
So at what point in a pregnancy does the unborn become a baby... so that it should be considered murder to abort?
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peacefulpete
A conversation like this requires commitment to thoughtful engagement. I'm not seeing that.
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Mum
Personally, I find religion as distasteful and many of you. However, having grown up in the Southern Highlands, I can see its usefulness for many.
There are lots of people living down here who, without religion, would be doing greater harm to themselves and others. Believe it or not.