Goodbye yhwh-Goodbye jesus

by fulltimestudent 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    to determine which principles are correct, you only have to visualise the results if everyone did the opposite.

    This is the argument that the Watchtower uses on their view of military involvement. They reason that if everyone were like them and refused to join the military, there would be no wars. It is easy to imagine, right? And, if you imagine the opposite, where nations have a military... this is why we have wars. I mean surely all you have to do is disband all of earth's military to avoid war, right? This of course is pure wishful thinking nonsense.

    The atheist system says I'm the product of unguided random chance. And, now that I got here I can make the rules for everyone else. I get to decide what is best for everyone even though unguided random chance decided what was best for me.

    I'm not fooled by this reasoning. If atheists really believed this, they would throw all the ideas regarding a particular subject into a bag, shake it up and pick one.

    Atheists don't really believe that random unguided chance is a good thing. It is a prop.

    Christians believe we are made in God's image. The human being has intrinsic value separate from utility. Christian ethics are rooted in Jesus Christ who claimed to actually be God, and claimed to have come to earth not to judge it, but to save it. Christian ethics include:

    1. Help the poor and needy like widows and orphans

    2. Those that don't want to work probably shouldn't worry about eating either

    3. Life is sacred because we are made in the image of God. He is the owner of life, not the State or other humans, not even yourself. You are free to use it any way you want, but He is free to judge you after you die to see how well you did. True justice requires that we personally receive what we have meted out, or wished upon others.

    4. Free will is the foundation of God's dealings with man. Tell people about a judgement after they die, but love your enemies because the real enemy is the "virus" of sin nature that we all have, not people.

    5. Try to live in peace with all people, even if they disagree with you.

    6. It's ok to see good for your hard work. It is a gift from God since he is a master worker.

    7. Love others as you love yourself. (Make sure you love yourself as much as God loves you first)

    8. We were created for a specific purpose: God's good pleasure and no other reason.

    9. God is pleased when we try to live by the 10 commandments, it brings him pleasure and we benefit ourselves, our families, our neighbors and our cultures.

    10. Extend grace whenever prudently possible. Take a stand against things that are clearly evil. Be reluctant otherwise.

    Having said all that, I would still rather live next door to a conservative atheist than a misguided liberal Christian.



  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete
    8. We were created for a specific purpose: God's good pleasure and no other reason

    I'd rather rather give my life purpose than imagine I was a tinker toy with a predetermined usefulness. And honestly, I really doubt your words are any more true for you than me. Life has promise and potential, even if it is short for some of us. While we are alive we give life purpose by accomplishment and creativity, selflessness and cooperation. If you wait to have a deity define your purpose in life you will be tools for someone else's purpose.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    I'd rather rather give my life purpose than imagine I was a tinker toy with a predetermined usefulness.

    People have kids primarily for the same reason - their good pleasure. It is a lot of work having children and making a family. However it can be a source of much joy to parents and children as well.

    Your characterization of family seems particularly cold and ungrateful. Not very peaceful, Pete.

    PP Parents: Peaceful Pete, you have brought much pleasure to our lives. We are so glad we decided to have you. Are you glad we made you?

    Peaceful Pete: I'm not your tinker toy! I am the one who gives my life purpose by my accomplishments and creativity, selflessness and cooperation.

    PP Parents: It saddens your mother and I to hear you say that Pete, we love you and are interested in you. Don't you like that?

    Peaceful Pete: You can't define my purpose in life. I am not a tool to achieve YOUR purpose.

    PP Dad: Crying Old Person - Occidental Dissent

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    I don't trust people who need religion in order to be good people.

    Is it really that hard?

    You really need the threat of hell or the promise of heaven?

    Why not just use your conscience?

    Surely you don't believe WTs guff about needing your conscience to be trained?

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    I'm sorry but that was actually quite funny. Family gives my life purpose, accomplishment and creativity as well. Selfless cooperation is the lifeblood of family and society. Don't wait for a message to be delivered from above to give life purpose. It is all around you.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    According to Hume, the materialist cannot jump from what is to what ought to be.

    "You cannot, according to Hume, derive an “ought” from an “is,” at least without a supporting “ought” premise." So, deciding that you ought not to protect babies in the womb because it inhibits freedom of choice presupposes that causing harm to unborn babies is not wrong or immoral. This presupposition seems good enough for most people in America at present.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    Family gives my life purpose

    But you would deny God the same familial context for joy, purpose and pleasure? Does that seem fair Peaceful Pete? I mean, if its good for you shouldn't it be good for the ultimate father? Why would you not want God to experience what you do? Especially, since he is the one who made it all possible.

  • Rivergang
    Rivergang
    This is the argument that the Watchtower uses on their view of military involvement. They reason that if everyone were like them and refused to join the military, there would be no wars

    I do think you have somewhat gone off at a tangent there.

    JWs maintain non-involvement with the military on the grounds of what they like to describe as "Christian" neutrality, not pacifism (how could you anyway, when the bible is full of blood and guts talk). Furthermore, they maintain all wars will be ended by "Christ's Kingdom Rule", not pacifism.

    As to the role of any imagined "Hereafter", the Canadian poet Robert Service summed it up perfectly in his poem The Wage Slave - part of which reads:

    "When the long, long shift is over, and the Big Boss gives me my pay,

    I hope it's not to hellfire, as I heard the preacher say,

    And I hope it's not to heaven, not with some of the preachers I've met."

    If even half the twerps that reckon they are going to heaven end up there, then I certainly don't want to be among them!

    (Read so much for religion promoting good behaviour!)

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete
    According to Hume, the materialist cannot jump from what is to what ought to be.

    But you know what? I can live a purposeful life just fine without Hume either.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete
    But you would deny God the same familial context for joy, purpose and pleasure?

    You seem to have now jumped to God needing a life purpose. If God's need for purpose inspired him to make us to commune with, and our need for purpose is filled by communing with him, doesn't that make us equals?

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