American Sniper - courage or cowardice?

by Simon 48 Replies latest social entertainment

  • Simon
    Simon

    The issue of carpet bombing is an interesting debate: on the one hand, it was a terrible thing but on the other it was attacking a people who were supporting a regime that was truly evil.

    Was it justified? Did it save more lives than it took? It's difficult to say and all the same arguments for the atom bombing of Japan apply.

    The only thing for certain is that it was from another age - where killing had been industrialized but not yet perfected to the point of being targeted precisely. Nowadays we quibble about the deaths of much smaller numbers of people which shows we're perhaps making progress.

    But regardless of all that, there are rules of behavior in war that supersede any orders or the like. Not everyone will agree with them or agree to keep them but that doesn't mean they are not there and shouldn't be upheld or people held to account if they violate them.

  • talesin
    talesin

    I am speaking to the OP, not having read the subsequent pages.  I downloaded this movie yesterday and it looks to be a good flick.

    Snpers?  Hey. are you a military family?  Then, there should be no questions asked. If you are a WOO HOO AMERICA the land of the brave and home of the free, then shut your mouth.  The Airborne has the best in the world, and they are trained to kill.  It's a fact of your country, your identity in the world community - you are a violent people whose soldiers are trained to kill.  When one of them goes awry, havoc ensues.  

    Live with it.  Deal with it.  Be as loud and proud of your killing skills with a rifle, as you are about your corporate killing skills.  

  • j dubb
    j dubb
    J dub,  respectfully i say its clear you havent seen either american sniper or hurt locker. Neither of those films glorifies the iraq war any more than schindler's list glorifies ww2. Those two movies are rather stark portrayals of the toll war takes on individuals and in particular the haunting choices made by soldiers (one fictional, one historical) in iraq.

    Yea...my comment made clear I have not seen said movies. Not interested in seeing the 'haunting choices' made by people that are willing to murder for statism. And the 'historical' one based on a proven liar to boot.

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    I've found that most of the people who don't like the movie just don't like Chris Kyle.  I have also found that people project their particular views of the war on the movie.  I wish they had focused more on the PTSD aspect a little more especially after his last tour.


  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Curtis LeMay, the American General who led the systematic carpet bombing of Japan for 14 months, said that 'if the US had lost the war, he and his fellow officers would have been tried as war criminals'.  (Approximate quote.) Robert McNamara, who served as a Captain under LeMay, performed statistical analysis of the efficiency of the US bombing.  He later went on to serve as Secretary of Defense throughout most of the Vietnam War. He agreed with LeMay's comment.  The documentary "The Fog of War" was quite an eye opener for me.

    Two take-aways that have stuck with me were:

    1. The above comment about war criminals. 

    2.  The total destruction from the two atomic bombs was substantially less destructive than the "conventional" bombs dropped in the previous 14 months.  The estimates of lives lost from the atomic bombs are 129,000-246,000.  The estimates of lives lost from the conventional bombing of 67 Japanese cities leading up to the end of the war are 241,000-900,000.

    In addition to loss of life, the physical destruction of Japanese infrastructure of Hiroshima and Nagasaki pales in comparison to the toll taken on the rest of the country as the following chart shows:

    Effect of Conventional Bombing on Japanese Cities

    The table below notes the effect of conventional bombing campaigns on Japanese cities.

    City Name% Area Destroyed
    Yokohama58.0
    Tokyo51.0
    Toyama99.0
    Nagoya40.0
    Osaka35.1
    Nishinomiya11.9
    Shimonoseki37.6
    Kure41.9
    Kobe55.7
    Omuta35.8
    Wakayama50.0
    Kawasaki36.2
    Okayama68.9
    Yawata21.2
    Kagoshima63.4
    Amagasaki18.9
    Sasebo41.4
    Moji23.3
    Miyakonojo26.5
    Nobeoka25.2
    Miyazaki26.1
    Ube20.7
    Saga44.2
    Imabari63.9
    Matsuyama64.0
    Fukui86.0
    Tokushima85.2
    Sakai48.2
    Hachioji65.0
    Kumamoto31.2
    Isesaki56.7
    Takamatsu67.5
    Akashi50.2
    Fukuyama80.9
    Aomori30.0
    Okazaki32.2
    Oita28.2
    Hiratsuka48.4
    Tokuyama48.3
    Yokkaichi33.6
    Ujiyamada41.3
    Ogaki39.5
    Gifu63.6
    Shizuoka66.1
    Himeji49.4
    Fukuoka24.1
    Kochi55.2
    Shimizu42.0
    Omura33.1
    Chiba41.0
    Ichinomiya56.3
    Nara69.3
    Tsu69.3
    Kuwana75.0
    Toyohashi61.9
    Numazu42.3
    Choshi44.2
    Kofu78.6
    Utsunomiya43.7
    Mito68.9
    Sendai21.9
    Tsuruga65.1
    Nagaoka64.9
    Hitachi72.0
    Kumagaya55.1
    Hamamatsu60.3
    Maebashi64.2


    I highly recommend this brief clip from "The Fog of War".

    http://www.blinkx.com/ce/EaQon511B8WrOjoLAYpxjmTQRWFRb241MTFCOFdyT2pvTEFZcHhqbVRRRWFRb241MTFCOFdyT2p?id=1760603549

    Also, after watching American Sniper, I thought it was more anti-war than pro-US flag waving, although there was certainly a fair amount of that.

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    They have a saying:"All is fair in love and war" which in the big picture seems to be true. Hopefully one day we will adopt better means and ways to solve conflicts that match up with our increased technology.

    I was drawn into the PTSD that was being portrayed in the flick and could relate to it as my father suffered from violent out burst which no doubt was caused by PTSD when I was growing up. Anyway I wish they had spent more time with recovery of the PTSD in the film. War is a last resort option in my mind and all other means should be exhausted before using this option to solve issues. I think the possibility or potential is there but we will have to just wait and see but perhaps not in our lifetime but who knows.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVdQM47Av20

  • DisArmed
    DisArmed

    I saw the movie a week ago. As movies go I would rate it pretty good. It did keep my interest and evoked some thoughts and emotions. 

    As far as an opinion regarding courage or cowardice,  it seems to me anyone that serves and has to shoot or be shot has to have some measure of courage. There are those that meet the enemy face to face, thank "God" for them. And those behind front lines, thank "God" for them. What I gathered from the movie, reading, and discussions with informed friends, it takes a special set of skills to be a sniper. Not only do you have to have the marksmanship skills, you have to be decisive and have already made up your mind that you will kill a person in certain scenarios regardless of sex or age. It has been reported that Kyle killed more than 160 people. I would rather know how many lives he saved by using his skills.

  • Rattigan350
    Rattigan350

    If it is not hand to hand combat, it is cowardice.

    Unless a light saber is involved. 

  • zeb
    zeb

    "from where are you coming  soldier gaunt soldier

    with weapons beyond the reach of my mind

    With weapons so awesome the world must grow cold

    and die in its tracks if it doesn't turn kind."

    i saw the film today.

    Congratulations to Clint Eastwood fro this production.


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