Does Morality Exist?

by Fisherman 92 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  venus

  Morality exists and does not exist. For example,

  1)When you make a destructive criticism, you think you are right

  When you are destructively criticized, you think the other person is wrong.

  2)What appears to be good could be wrong when the recipient is changed. Cooperation is good when the recipient is also good like Law-enforcement agencies, employer …etc. Yet cooperation with anti-social elements is wrong.

  3)Anger is bad, yet it is also good sometimes because there could be grievous consequences of not getting angry, as well.

  In big picture, what works for the well-being of all is good and vice versa. I agree with Mike Gallagher who wrote: “Right and wrong are not relative terms. There are fundamental truths. Evil flourishes, but good men continue to battle it – and win.”
• 

  shepherdless

  I would put it this way:

  "Morality" is an abstract noun, and like many abstract nouns, can not be found in nature. You can't go to the back garden or down a mine shaft and dig up a lump of morality.

  Morality is a concept invented by humans that exists only in the mind of one or more humans. It happens to be a very useful concept, but that is beside the point. It follows that the boundaries of morality are defined not by the concept itself, but by what the relevant human mind decides are the boundaries.

  There is no absolute morality. To imply otherwise is to misunderstand the word.
• 

  Fisherman

  SBF, I don't grasp your illustration about sand castles. Also, how can an illustration prove something solidly?
• 

  Island Man

  Morality is an abstract concept. It's a classification that humans invented to group actions as being either prefered or to be avoided, based on various reasons such as superstition, culture and wellbeing. Morality is not a thing that is objectively real. It is an intangible concept/label that exists to the same degree that other abstract concepts/labels exist.

  What is moral can be delineated based on irrational reasons such as blindly following ancient traditions based on superstitions, religious edicts, blind obedience to authority (The "might is right" principle and most theistic religions subscribe to) etc, or it can be delineated based on sound, rational reasons such as determining what is objectively harmful vs what is objectively beneficial to individuals and society, as a whole.
• 

  Island Man

  I think that if morality exists, it must be defined. Proving that it does exist will define it. That is what I am looking for.

  Morality has no existence outside of our own definition of it. It exists because we define(d) it! It does not exist "out there" to be discovered and defined. It exists "in here" - in our minds. Morality exists in the abstract because we have defined it.

  Morality exists in much the same way as the purchasing power of money exists. Money has no true value in and of itself, independent of what we all choose, collectively, to ascribe to it. The purchasing power of money is imaginary - a shared delusion, and a very useful one at that. We all agree to ascribe it with value and use it as a convenient means of trading goods and services. Morality is like that. Societies choose to ascribe preference and antipathy to certain actions based on rational and irrational reasons and they label such actions as being either moral or immoral on that basis.
  
  
• 

  Fisherman

  our actions affect other conscious beings.

  How about actions that affect non concious beings, like throwing garbage into the ocean?
  
  
• 

  cofty

  How about actions that affect non concious beings like throwing garbage into the ocean?

  The moral dimension of dumping rubbish in the ocean comes from the fact that conscious creatures will be affected by our pollution.

  We could happily dispense with the words morality and ethics and nothing would change. We would still be concerned about the implications of our actions on the well-being of other creatures. They are just convenient labels.
  
  
• 

  Saename

  cofty - We could happily dispense with the words morality and ethics and nothing would change. We would still be concerned about the implications of our actions on the well-being of other creatures. They are just convenient labels.

  This is precisely why even if we're wrong about using well-being as the foundation for morality, that doesn't mean we should care about morality. So what I mean is this. Let's say someone demonstrates logically that well-being isn't the best foundation for morality, but that something else is. Okay, so what? Why should I care? If well-being shouldn't be the foundation of morality—meaning that there conceivably can be an action that is moral despite its effects diminishing the well-being of everyone—why should I then care about morality? Why not then just dispense with morality altogether and talk about well-being?
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  Fisherman

  If morality exists, is justice moral and if so, when ? What if justice defies well- being or vice-versa?
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  Fisherman

  The moral dimension of dumping rubbish in the ocean comes from the fact that conscious creatures will be affected by our pollution.

  I agree but I was thinking in terms of when creatures are not affected like when people dump trash for example and it affects the beauty and naturalness of nature or leaving a whole bunch of stuff on the moon or in outer space, graffiti on trees, throwing beautiful roses into the sewer or apples or food, not because it affects others but because It feels wrong. People do some crazy things.

  Another thing, I respect people's rights but I feel very very hurt to see someone with tattoos all over their body. It does not hurt people from having them but it hurts me.