by venus 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I don't see how the sovereignty issue makes Satan more powerful than Yahweh. It's the outcome of the issue that both parties are waiting on. Neither party is forcing the other party to wait.
In other news Dumbledore is stronger than Voldemort. Discuss!
I ... practice Past Regression therapy as hobby .. which I learned under my guru Brian L Weiss - Venus
That explains a lot.
Brian L Weiss
He seems to be into this mumbo jumbo for fame and cash. Books. TV appearances. I wonder if he actually believes his own hype? He's either after the fame and money or he's bonkers.
With the Creator no creature can raise any issue because Creator is supreme in the sense of justice and source of justice for creatures, hence universal issue is a non-issue. Satan himself doesn’t exist, if he did exist, he would have known the shape of earth to be a globe—not as flat (Satan is supposedly took Jesus to the top of the mountain to show him all the kingdoms of the earth—here Satan reflects the erroneous belief of the 1st century people, hence Satan is the imaginary figure).
Even if Satan exists, Jehovah doesn’t have to wait for the time Satan is satisfied in the case of universal issue—it is like God seeking validation from His creature to be a Creator.
Before Satan’s fall, they represent him only as an angel of limited existence. After his fall, he becomes, by their account, omnipresent as though. He exists everywhere trying to influence even the thoughts of believers. Not only Satan was unwittingly deified, but they represent him as defeating, by stratagem, all the power and wisdom of the Almighty. They represent him as having compelled the Almighty to the direct necessity either of surrendering the whole of the creation to the government and sovereignty of this Satan, or of capitulating for its redemption by coming down upon earth, and exhibiting his innocent son (another injustice) upon a cross in the shape of a man. Had the inventors of this story told it the contrary way, that is, had they represented the Almighty as compelling Satan to exhibit himself on a cross, in the shape of a snake, as a punishment for his new transgression, the story would have been less absurd- less contradictory. But instead of this, they make the transgressor triumph, and the Almighty fall.
You're making this far more complex than it needs to be. It doesn't matter if Satan exists or not. You have two people and one proposition.
The proposition is that Person A has sovereignty over everything. Person B disputes the proposition.
The proposition can be either True or False and is purely dependent on the sovereignty value of Person A. Person A can have any other characteristics you can think of. They can be omniscient, omnipresent, or weak, and clueless, all that matters is whether they are sovereign.
Person B doesn't need any characteristics at all, except the ability to ask the question.
So while the JW's are guilty of a great many heinous errors, they are not making Satan out to be mightier than god.
But only JW religion portrays Satan more powerful than God
The fact that JW's use the term 'Sovereign' for Jehovah itself implies that they believe that no one is mightier than him.
If someone questions the supreme ruler or monarch of a country, and the monarch decides to give him a reply or satisfy his questions, does that mean that the one questioning becomes greater and powerful than the monarch?
needs validation from Satan as though He waits till Satan is satisfied
To put it this way, JW teaching doesnt imply that Satan is powerful than Jehovah, because:
1. they teach that even imperfect humans can fight Satan and win against him
2. and that Jehovah is not waiting to satisfy Satan, but is waiting to first imprison him and then kill him eternally.
All other religions have myths that show Satan as inferior to God Almighty. But only JW religion portrays Satan more powerful than God through their teaching of “Issue of Sovereignty” which implies God Almighty needs validation from Satan as though He waits till Satan is satisfied which has not happened even after killing of Jesus 2000 years ago and things like ethnic cleansing, spilling of oceans of blood …. etc.
Venus I basically agree with you on this as JWs have come up with the universal sovereignty doctrine because the kingdom of God hasn't arrived yet, as you say even with their belief in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus.
Probably because they don't believe everyone goes to heaven they've come up with an answer as to why our reward of a paradise earth has taken so damn long to get here.
We're waiting for God to give an answer to Satan, as in Job's account, proof that people serve him out of love and not for reward. As with everything the JWs believe they keep having to think of ridiculous reasons why paradise has been delayed.
Hi,
Jehovah is waiting for mankind to realize we can't rule ourselves because of our imperfections and sin...So Jehovah wants us to be sick and tired of being sick and tired....once this happens we will finally give up and say...OK, Jehovah you is the MAN & have always been THE MAN....
Think about life today....the gov't has gone rogue, White House ain't thinking about us...basically no one is minding the store and so we citizens don't have any leadership, everybody watching for their own butts...
I've met many people that are saying, can't trust the Pres./Gov't so I'll try the man above...
Could Jehovah have opened up the window of opportunity for us to look to him...
Maybe just maybe this is the time to preach...folks are more open...I'm just saying...
Jehovah don't need humans to tell folks about his sovereignty, he said it in the bible, he could've used rocks, he just wants to let you know, that he raised his son from the dead and he can raise you...Jehovah's message is this...I gave my son for you nuts...so act like you appreciate it...preach about my son Jesus, not me, I can take care of myself...
It's called Christianity...why because Christ....not Jehovah'anity...
Tor
