'The videos are helping the young people.'

by Magnum 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Magnum

  Some time ago a super-dub stopped by to try to encourage me to return to JW land. My demeanor during our conversation was extremely serious. I was polite, but dignified. I will never lower myself to the JW goody-goody, smiley-smiley countenance. I let him know that I had no intention of returning and didn’t want to and that there was nothing weak about me – that I wasn’t just drifting away because I was weak and that I didn’t need or want any help to return. I will never give a JW even the slightest impression that I want to return because I don’t want to. I gave this JW ample reason as to why I didn’t want to return.

  Anyway, the point of this post is about one of the things I said to him about the rebranded JWdom. I told him that many/most, if not all of the JW videos are stupid, corny, goody-goody, and embarrassing. At that point, he looked at the ground, cocked his head a little sideways and looked up at me out of the corners of his eyes with a self-righteous, smirky grin on his face and said

  “But you know what? They’re helping the young people.”

  What a stupid statement! I absolutely detest statements like that. They are meaningless unless specifics are provided. What exactly was meant by “helping”? Did he mean “helping” them to remain in JWdom? “Helping” them obey their parents? “Helping” them do their homework? “Helping” them refrain from playing with toys associated with demons? Exactly what?

  And, then, even if he did explain specifically what he meant by “helping”, how did he know the videos were having the specific effect he described? How did he know they were “helping” the young people? What kind of evidence could he provide? What kind of numbers? Did he just have one or two local anecdotes? Had somebody done some kind of controlled, detailed sociological and/or psychological study? If so, what were the specifics? How many were involved in the study and over what period of time? What kind of methods were used to measure the “help”? Had a follow-up study been done to determine whether the “help” was lasting or just short term?

  In an argument with another person, I will always point out such broad, sweeping statements that are not specific and that are meaningless and unfounded, but that, if unchallenged, seem to add weight to the other person’s argument.

  Did he really think he was going to make that broad, sweeping general statement, and that I was going to just accept it – that I was going to just say “Oh, well, thank you for explaining that. I didn’t know the videos were helping the young people. Wow, dumb little old me. I feel so foolish now. I see now how the organization is doing so much good. This helps me to really appreciate the governing body. Will you help me to get back active in the ministry? Do you think I could ever progress to the point that I could stand by one of the carts? That would be such a privilege! And, also, do you think I could ever maybe meet Brother Lett? He’s so funny; I can see why all the friends really love him!”

  I must admit that even though I still do not believe the JW videos are helping anybody, that super-dub actually really did help me; he helped me to further see the stupidity and shallowness of JWdom. He helped me to see that JWs just believe they are right, but that they can’t defend their position. He further convinced me to stay out of JW land.
• 

  JaniceA

  I kind of think giving that response and watching their jaw drop and their instant recognition that there is NO WAY would help them to see how dumb of a comment that it was. Of course, that would open up a can of worms and none of us needs any open wormy cans in our life!
• 

  smiddy3

  I would have liked it if you had challenged him on that statement Magnum and got his response .

  “But you know what? They’re helping the young people.”

  though it` easy for me to say so in hindsight

  
  
• 

  stuckinarut2

  Yes! They are helping the young people see just how bat-shit crazy the Religion has become!
  
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  He probably meant something like

  helping them obey Jehovah (of the Watchtower)

  helping them identify with the video characters and emulate their behavior.

  helping them further distance themselves from the world/ worldlings (other children)
• 

  tiki

  Bet any kid stuck watching them would prefer a Disney princess or raining meatballs.....or whatever is out there and fun and fantasy.
• 

  scratchme1010

  “But you know what? They’re helping the young people.”
  

  Cognitive dissonance at its best.
• 

  cha ching

  Maybe magnum, just maybe, he was giving you a secret hint (so he wouldn't get in trouble) that (like stuckinarut said) "it's helping us see how stupid this is and leave"!!!
• 

  Drearyweather

  How did he know they were “helping” the young people? What kind of evidence could he provide? What kind of numbers? Did he just have one or two local anecdotes? Had somebody done some kind of controlled, detailed sociological and/or psychological study? How many were involved in the study and over what period of time? What kind of methods were used to measure the “help”? Had a follow-up study been done to determine whether the “help” was lasting or just short term?

  Magnum, Honestly speaking, not all statements that we make can have the backing of detailed studies and statistics. Much of it is based upon our own experience and those of others.

  For e.g. In your previous posts on this forum you have made the following statements:

  Many are suffering now financially because of having been JWs.

  Many JW’s are on medication for mental/psychological/emotional reasons.

  I'm sure that before the coup, the non-GB members of the FDS were a thorn in the side of the GB

  I'm virtually certain that Harvey won't cost the org a penny

  So, do you have actual numbers and studies, as in how many JW's out of 8 million are suffering financially specifically because of being JW's? or do you have reliable stats of how many JW's take mental health medications? Can you apply the questions you made in the OP to your own statements?

  Or did you make these statements out of your own life experience, your experience in the congregation and of the people on this board?
• 

  Magnum

  Drearyweather: not all statements that we make can have the backing of detailed studies and statistics

  And who made that claim??? That’s a strawman argument. Do you know what that is? You just built yourself a big old strawman and you're beating on it and burning it giving yourself and maybe others the impression that you’re accomplishing something or winning in an argument. You're not. You’re wasting your time beating a strawman. It’s not alive; it’s made of straw. It can’t feel. I did not make the claim you indicated I did.

  I claim that, depending on a number of things including context, clarity of statement, degree to which situation described is known, time situation described has existed and been observed, etc., some statements do need backing, especially if presented in serious discussions, court cases, etc. in which the outcome for at least one party involved could be serious.

  Contrary to what you wrote, I do not claim that “all statements that we make” should “have the backing of detailed studies and statistics.” Ludicrous strawman.

  The statements of mine you quoted do not compare to the one I quoted in the OP, and evidently you lack the comprehension to discern that. Not all statements are the same and not all require the same backing up and explaining.

  Consider my first two statements. They are more objective and the meanings are clear. The situations have been ongoing for years, so there has been ample time to observe and analyze and to determine whether the situations described were just short-term or they were long-term. It is well-known that many JWs did not plan for "this system" to last this long and have no retirement prospects and no savings and no prospects for getting better jobs or any jobs at all. A lot of evidence has been provided on this forum. I personally have lots of evidence. I personally am evidence. Many believing JWs admit such. It is also well-known that many JWs are on medication for the reasons I stated.

  Now, consider the statement "the videos are helping the young people". That is not objective; it is subjective (I’m concerned that you won’t know the difference). As I've already explained, it is not clear what that even means (in contrast with all my statements you quoted, the meanings of which are crystal clear).

  Also, the videos haven't even existed that long, so how can it be known whether they are providing real, lasting help of any kind? The situation with financially broke JWs has been going on for decades and is permanent and well-observed. Am I supposed to just accept the “video” statement - like "Oh, OK, I didn't know they were helping young people". Statements such as the one about the videos do need numbers or at least good evidence to back them up.

  The “video” statement is extremely vague and completely unsupported. You don’t understand that? It was not presented as opinion, but as a hard and fast fact. It was presented in a serious discussion in which one party was asking the other to dedicate the entire remainder of his life to a certain cause that requires serious sacrifice and would cost him lots of money. In that context, vague statements do require evidence.

  As for the last two of my statements you quoted, they are presented as opinion. Do you understand that? Consider these two statements:

  “The videos are helping the young people.”

  “I believe [or “I’m certain” or “I’m sure”] the videos are helping the young people.”

  Those two statements are very different. The first presented as established fact; the second as opinion. Very different. The JW with whom I was talking stated what he did as hard fact, as if it was established and well-known – not as opinion that was open to debate.

  Now, go back to beating on your strawman.