Well, the experience is over

by HuskerMike 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • HuskerMike

    met the JW's today, a 20 year old boy and his mother. He was refreshing, she was not. As soon as the conversation started to go to the Trinity, she stopped the discussion and simply asked if we were "comfortable" in believing what we do. Of course we said yes. She then said, "why exactly then are we here?".

    Boy was that a loaded question. I started to say that my wife wanted more information (not entirely truthful), and that I was concerned for them. Thanks to many of your pieces of advice I started in telling her that I was concerned about the blood practice. She brought up a VERY useless analogy, "we tell alcholics not to drink, should we then let them shoot alcohol into their veins?". That was nonsense and I told her so. She then got very uncomfortable and stated that they should go, after a mere 30 minutes.

    At this point my wife started in telling them that she feared for their souls, etc. Boy did this not help.

    By and large, what happened is exactly what I thought would happen, however, we caught her in at least 2 lies. First, she claimed that they do not follow rules made by men. They follow the Bible and the WT is simply guidance. At this I asked if they were allowed to read the Bible and come to their own conclusions, to which she said "YES". Lie 1

    Lie 2, when departing she asked if we would take her book. I said "sure" as I will use it in my apologetics teachings. My wife said, "how about this, we will take yours if you take one of ours". The lady was quick in her response, "NO, I will not". My wife proceeded to ask, "why not, does your church NOT allow you to read it", she responded by saying "no it is not that, they have no problem I just don't feel comfortable with the information". Lie 2.

    I truly hope that her son caught both lies, as I know he knows the truth. Anyway, thank you for your advice and help (and very warm welcome).

  • rocketman

    Two lies indeed.

    She won't take the book because they are told not to. They don't accept other literature. Which of course means that they don't even consider views other than their own.

  • SpannerintheWorks

    Mike, what exactly DID you do? It seems to me that, all the

    advice you had been given by all those posters on your

    previous thread had been wasted!

    What were you trying to achieve anyway?

    Whatever it was, you certainly didn't do it!

    What a lame attempt at freeing those who are chained up in

    the Watchtower!

  • HuskerMike

    wow, that is somewhat harsh. I think you are wrong. We started where THEY started. They left off with my wife regarding the Trinity. What am I supposed to do, say NO a "bunch of apostates" told me not too?"

    Look, I simply was very kind, however, the women simply asked a question, was I suppose to lie? No way. I told her what I believed, however, I also made it clear to her by telling her I did not want to debate the Trinity as we are both firm there. I then move to the blood question and the question of whether the church or God should be the focus of attention. Both of these, I might add were given to me to speak about by those here.

    You ask what my intentions were. Simple, I wanted to plant a seed. Re-read my earlier thread and someone clearly stated that I would not likely be able to do anything since I have never been a JW.

    I don't know exactly why you say it was "lame" as you were not there. I presume that you were once a JW, to which you yourself should know that once I stated a firm belief opposite theirs with the position that i would not change that they would leave. I did not force them to come, nor did I force them to stay. What would you have done?

    I don't mean to sound defensive, but I cannot fathom why your comment is so harsh. I was not with them, as I was very gentle relatively speaking of course. Sorry that I could not live up to your expectations.

  • cat1759

    He brought up some issues and it is not his fault the woman was so indoctrinated and obviously she didn't know her bible well enough to show him the scriptures that back this up. She just used lame analogy.

    When a jws does not open their bible that means to me that they don't have enough knowledge to show me. They are just the ones that sit in the pews and walk aimlessly through door to door hoping God sees their half hearted attempts.

    This person tried to get them to think. They are robots that need certain buttons pushed before they can respond.

    I think he did a good job.


  • HuskerMike

    moreover, she was born and raised JW. She is very firm in her belief. I don't think much can be done for her, by me anyway. Her son, however, I believe would be reachable. Like I said, I hope the two lies she let fly will make him question. As if it were me, I would walk away wondering why my mother lied to those people.

  • HuskerMike

    thanks Kathy, actually she "attempted" to use the Bible several times, but to my surprise she said, "in Acts xx I believe it says". I expected more I guess. But again, she was uncomfortable from the first question she asked. I don't think from that point on much of what was said meant anything. She more or less said, "you believe what you do and after 40+ years so do I". We have to go and try to convert others who have no beliefs.

    By the way, she also said that she does door-to-door out of the kindness of her own heart. That she doesn't have to do it, she does not earn salvation OR points from the church by doing this. My question is, isn't this lie number 3?

  • blondie

    HuskerMike, you had good intentions but the JW mindset is strong. Most JWs think they go in the ministry because they love people. But then why do they keep track of their time and literature placements to turn into the congregation? It is like a time record you turn into work to be paid.

    It was not a lame attempt. I doubt that anyone here, including people who had been JWs for a long-time, would have done any better, including me.

    You were brave and loving to make the attempt.

    May you and your family be blessed with the love you have shown,


  • HuskerMike

    thanks Blondie, I will chalk it up as a learning experience. I must say, however, that I am not sure it will be repeated. I would love to, however, if they will simply get up and leave what point is it? They are taught not to listen. What a crock. I am firm in my belief but listen intently to my atheist, agnostic, Muslim brothers. I have investigated their teachings and they have helped firm mine. Sad, really, that they are so indoctronated. Oh well, I am sure I will get another chance, hopefully.

  • Satanus

    she also said that she does door-to-door out of the kindness of her own heart. That she doesn't have to do it, she does not earn salvation OR points from the church by doing this.

    That's a lie alright. When i missed doing any door to door for a couple of months, an elder said to me that i had ceased being a jw during that time. Not being a jw means death at god's hands, and spiritual death until that time.

    If she missed turning in a report of any time for a month, she would be considered as an 'irregular publisher', spiritually sick. If she missed a few months (6 months, i believe) she would be called 'inactive', seriously looked down on, considered spiritually dead.


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