Paradise? Was it?

by TerryWalstrom 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    Eve: (nudging Adam enthusiastically with her elbow) What's that strange animal over there?

    Adam: (rubbing his side) That's an Aardvark Eve, but once again, you must remember that for the rest of eternity you mustn't nudge me on this side where my rib used to be cause' when you do, your elbow hits my spleen and it really hurts.

    Eve: Hurts? What is this thing you call "hurts"?

    Adam: (rolling eyes) This eternity is going to take forever...

  • TerryWalstrom

    Once we accept and believe anything, we don't actually THINK about it any longer

    from a critical or analytical aspect. We move the "as is" around this way and that as a "given."
    Taking a step back, as though just presented with information, with fresh eyes as it were, we are likely to astonish ourselves with what suddenly looms menacingly to shake us away from unquestioning acceptance.

  • venus

    Paradise description and its loss were the best humans could think of as the answer to the question “How did suffering arise?” If this description were correct, then its conclusion too should be correct where God is reportedly said: ‘He doesn’t like humans to become like Him’ (Genesis 3:22) which of course God the Father would not say. That means paradise and Adam and Eve story is a piece of human imagination, and is a parallel account of creation to Genesis chapter 1 where it says God created “mankind,” not one couple. (Genesis 1:26)

  • smiddy3

    It never ceases to amaze me what you guys come up with,why didn`t I think of that ? .

    So simple yet so true a word or paragraph was ever spoken.

    Thank you Terry An excellent thought provoking post..not that you need to think that much as it`s so obvious.

  • TerryWalstrom

    Things we accept as absolute are never thought of analytically again.
    Think of it like currency. We are handed a $20 and pocket it without a care.
    Um, gosh--I never thought to check!
    "Fool me once--shame on you, etc."

  • David_Jay

    The etymology of the word "paradise" had to do with botany and estate owned by royalty. The word is Indo-European in origin, and referred to gardens that were closed off away from others that only the powerful could enjoy with their guests. They were often idyllic places on the inside, guarded by soldiers with deadly weapons at the gates to keep the common folk out. There was often a stark contrast between what it looked like inside compared with outside of the gate or wall enclosing the "park."

    The word was adapted into the Greek language where it eventually became employed by Christians to describe both Eden and Heaven. This was the root of how it got adopted by Jehovah's Witnesses to stand for their theology of a "perfect world" (i.e., "You can live forever in paradise on earth...").

    Technically speaking, Adam and Eve were in a "paradise" as the word only originally meant an "enclosed park." The word comes with no implication on the treatment of guests within the enclosure.

    The details that Terry are raising are interesting but are still the Watchtower's theology details. The original word "paradise" is absent of all of these. All those added details are foolery of the Watchtower, "definitions" they added to the word "paradise" which have nothing to do with the original word (which, by the way does not actually occur in the Hebrew text).

    Footnote: The English word "paradise" has also come to mean "idyllic state," but this is a newer meaning influenced by the Christian meaning added since the development of Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity. The original etyomology from Avestan to Greek had no such Christian connotations.

  • Fisherman
    I mean: really? Is this PARADISE or a ridiculous fantasy story passed down from primitive minds?

    Sounds to me like you never experienced any real intimacy with God. Or maybe you forgot.

    Interesting thread though!

  • David_Jay


    I don't think that type of question toward the original poster is fair.

    To begin with, the story of Adam and Eve as written by the Jews, my people, and as currently understood by us, is not, nor has it ever been understood or meant to be taken as historical. It was designed for a more primitive mindset using techniques we don't use today.

    In a way, therefore, the question is very valid as this type of writing genre is very ancient and foreign. It does come from primitive minds, but that doesn't mean it is simple. It is quite complex. It is like a "fantasy" story in that it is teaching cultural truths using Hebrew folklore. So the question is not too far off base.

    Jews are not called the Nation of Abraham. We are called the Nation of Israel. Why? Because Jacob, who was renamed Israel, was a man who experienced real intimacy with God only by asking the tough questions and wrestling with the real issues. To have a connection with God, questioning God, even wrestling with God like Israel did, is what it means to be very intimate with God. At least that is what it means to be in a covenant relationship with God to Jews.

    If you don't questions, if you don't wrestle with God, if you don't say, "No, I will not let you go until you bless me and do what I ask of you," then all your lack of sitting there and just accepting stuff makes your religion static. Static religion is more ineffective than lack of religion. It's like worshiping idols. It's like saying: "Faith moves mountains." You pray, and then you sit and wait for God to do things for you. Jews are different. A Jewish proverb says: "Pray as if everything depends on God, but act as if everything depends on you."

    At least someone has the courage to ask questions. No one has a real intimate relationship with someone they don't ask real nitty gritty questions of. So if you're not asking questions like this poster did, you're the one who's never experienced any real intimacy with God.

  • dubstepped

    Fisherman is just a mislead JW follower that has hung on here for 14 long years. My guess is that intimacy isn't something he's experienced with anyone, human or otherwise. Can you imagine spending pretty much all day posting here as a JW? He can't even be authentic himself, so intimacy period is out of the question. I feel sorry for him. The only reason I can imagine anyone putting themselves through this is that somehow Watchtower has put them up to it. He and the old Richard Oliver have to be planted here. Can you imagine that life? Talk about the opposite of paradise. Sounds like a personal hell unless you're some sort of psychopath.

  • atomant

    lf god took one of adams ribs to create eve how could adam be a perfect man with a rib missing????

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