This really does not end well for God.

by pleaseresearch 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • pleaseresearch
    pleaseresearch

    To say this whole creation thing has been or will be a success at the end is absurd. Not only did one third of the angels jump ship to Satans side. But Adam and Eve screwed up so quickly. Even before Adam and Eve sinned. Satan had turned on God. So it's really not gone well for him so far.

    Ok we get to Armageddon and billions are killed. Let's not forget all the people who died during Noah's time. Then after the 1000 year reign of Jesus it says Satan will be let out, and the people who Satan will get to turn from God and go to attack his people will be as the sands of the earth. So we can pretty much imagine, billions again if not trillions if that's possible. So then they are all dead.

    Then God wont bring to mind the former things. Yeah because what an embarrassment and a total failure its been for God. The angels that will live with God and have seen all this, must have face palmed themselves so hard, so many times. For God after all this, feel it's ok to put his feet up, relax and feel proud of any of this, is Nuts!

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    Plus, all this death and destruction is just so that any later challenges to his authority can just be met by instant execution! A sort of "nope, we've tried that and it didn't work so now you get to die!" Imagine that...everyone lives forever but periodically your buddies just vanish because they questioned god's authority. Now if we're really talking about forever one can assume that eventually everyone would, at some point, question god's authority and get pooffed out of existence so no one would really get to live forever and god would be tasked with killing an infinite number of people over the course of eternity. Doesn't seem like a very good system at all.

  • pleaseresearch
    pleaseresearch

    Yeah I never thought about that before. Everyone will question eventually. I just think how hes handled it is so cruel. Why take us on this trip just to prove a point. Why not rid Adam and Eve, put his hand up and say "My bad" they screwed up. Let me try this again. I'm sure people and the Angels would love and respect God that much more. But no, billions of lives have to be lost.

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    Why do adam and eve have to die at all? It's as if you had a kid and the very first mistake they made instead of lovingly correcting them and helping them to see their error, you just kill them and start trying for another kid. Some "loving father" god is!

    Edit:

    Obviously I'm familiar with the JW "perfect standards of justice" nonsense answer to this but it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. In what world is killing someone just when their only crime is violating some arbitrary rule that doesn't matter to anyone?

  • freddo
    freddo

    Yup. Jehovah wouldn't be allowed to run a microphone in our hall with that track record - let alone be a Ministerial Servant or Elder.

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000
    Why do adam and eve have to die at all? It's as if you had a kid and the very first mistake they made instead of lovingly correcting them and helping them to see their error, you just kill them and start trying for another kid

    Exactly. Plus what type of sick parent, would leave their innocent, and naive kid, who has not been exposed to malice and evil, be tempted by a much older and wise individual?

    This is almost like leaving a 5 year old kid in a room, tell him he can't touch this one toy, then introduce a much older and wise person, whose sole job is to spend the day trying to convince the child to go ahead and touch that toy. Then punish the kid. What a stupid God.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Pleaseresearch ยป To say this whole creation thing has been or will be a success at the end is absurd. Not only did one third of the angels jump ship to Satans side. But Adam and Eve screwed up so quickly. Even before Adam and Eve sinned. Satan had turned on God. So it's really not gone well for him so far.

    Christianity and atheism can't be settled by mere sophistry of this kind. You have no idea of what lay behind the war in heaven, as it's called. You also have little understanding of the fall of man and if Adam and Eve "screwed up" as you say. How do you know they screwed up? Given that God is all powerful and all knowing, it's difficult to believe that He would put Adam and Eve in a garden under the restrictions He gave them and not know in advance that they would fall.

    How do you know He did not intend for man to fall?

    Did God fully intend for man to remain in an ignorant state forever? Because of your religious background that's all you've been taught. But if the Redemption, or Atonement, of mankind enabled Adam and Eve and their descendants to become like God -- that is to have an immortal glorified body of flesh and bone and to be "like God" (see 1 John 3;2) -- then only by falling, becoming mortal and being redeemed could they complete the process. Thus, Satan's plan fails and God's plan succeeds.

    This has been debated since St. Augustine and in far more detail. As Father Kallistos Ware notes in The Orthodox Way, "The source of evil lies thus in the free will of spiritual beings endowed with moral choice, who use that power of choice incorrectly." God could not make the choice of man's fall for him. He had to put him in a position where it was man's choice. Not evil, for the scripture states: "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever...[God] placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

    How could man be evil if he had not that knowledge? And also, why would God keep man away from the tree of life, which would have given him immortality? The only logical conclusion is that man would have been trapped in an imperfect, immortal body for eternity with no possibility of growth.

    "The effects of man's fall were both physical and moral," Ware notes. ...For death is not the end of life, but the beginning of its renewal." I believe he summed it up well when he wrote: "The Incarnation, then, is not simply a way of undoing the effects of [the fall], but it is an essential stage upon man's journey from the divine image to the divine likeness." In other words, we were created in the image of man, but we required the fall and the atonement to acquire God's likeness. It was God's plan all along, and Satan and his angels opposed it.

    If one reads and understands the scriptures, God is always one step ahead of Satan and has provided man with limitless potential. Scoff at the creation if you will, but you've missed the heart of what's in the scriptures.

  • doubtfull1799
    doubtfull1799

    Good post @pleaseresearch

    You have no idea of what lay behind the war in heaven, as it's called. You also have little understanding of the fall of man and if Adam and Eve "screwed up" as you say. How do you know they screwed up?
    How do you know He did not intend for man to fall?
    Did God fully intend for man to remain in an ignorant state forever?

    Respectfully @Cold Steel, you really don't know the answers to these questions anymore than the OP does! Your comments are just as speculative since God in His wisdom did not see fit to enlighten any of us by means of the Bible as to what his thinking was. It is mere human apologetics. May I suggest the following book for anyone interested in a thorough, well-informed, academic discussion of apologetics:

    https://www.amazon.com/How-Defend-Christian-Faith-Atheist/dp/163431056X

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    This is what happens when you restrict what people can do with their souls. Barely anyone wants to be enslaved--without the threat of going to the gulags, hardly anyone would accept their microchips. Without the hardships of poverty and destitution, hardly anyone would be willing to go to work for a big company that wants them enslaved. Even the majority of the faithful angels (the grays) are microchipped and thus forced into obeying joke-hova.

    Notice that Satan never had to force or threaten to get people to listen? People just listened to the truth, and realized that being like God is better than being enslaved, no death threats needed. Then, joke-hova had to throw a temper tantrum and put a curse on mankind to prevent people from re-entering a Golden Age. Nimrod, a Satanist, also almost got us back into a Golden Age only to have joke-hova interfere and prevent said Golden Age from materializing. Of course, Nimrod (like Hitler) was blasphemed to prevent anyone else from trying to lead mankind into a Golden Age. Joke-hova had to bind us to prevent this from happening.

    Even among the "chosen race" of Israel, joke-hova had to constantly threaten with malediction for disobedience. Did Satan ever do that? Did Satan ever have to do that? Or, was it joke-hova that threw the curse to stop Satan from successfully planting a Golden Age upon the earth? And who is it that is trying to get us all microchipped now, to be enslaved into a hyper-communist state worse than the Dark Ages? For sure, Satan is against it--joke-hova has to exert constant force to stop mankind from success.

    No wonder everyone wants joke-hova and its filthy angels bound, whether or not they realize it. No wonder people are reluctant to attend boasting sessions and need constant reminders to do field circus--and they have to blame "human imperfection" for what is actually the attempt to obey Nature instead of joke-hova.

  • Old Navy
    Old Navy

    Aye, it is understandable to go into a depressive funk when

    cogitating upon The World as it has developed and The Word.

    In due time we'll gain understanding and appreciation for why

    things have been done in the seemingly haphazard way that

    we may think. Job eventually saw the light after a great deal

    of suffering. Maybe his story is indicative of the struggles we

    all face as we strive to make some sense of all the crazy stuff

    going on. Cold Steel raises possibilities that I find agreeable.

    The Watchtower and most of Christendom have wandered way

    off The Path into their traditions of men. I do have hope in a

    Heavenly Father for whom all things are possible. When the dust

    settles following what is yet to come I think we'll all be very

    pleasantly surprised.

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