The Pagan Origins of the Memorial Observed by Jehovah’s Witnesses
Let me clarify that I am not defending anything, I am just trying to set the record straight as to JW beliefs. The outline of the Memorial talk shows that the JW version is that the Memorial is a separate celebration than the Passover and that it was instituted after that celebration; this is the direct quote:
Jesus instituted the Memorial of his death with those with whom he made a covenant for his heavenly Kingdom, the members of which are limited to 144,000 (Lu 22:28-30)
Once a year on the anniversary date.
This would also be consistent with the fact that the Lord’s Evening
Meal was instituted on the date of the Jewish Passover, a yearly celebration that no longer had to be kept by Jews who had become Christians. Reasoning page 268
Going by your bullet 1 it seems that you agree with the idea that the Memorial as observed by the JW was a separate arrangement:
1. The Memorial/Lord's Supper/Eucharist was indeed instituted by Jesus.
'to figure out how a boy my age got that knowledge'.. this reminded me of the boy jesus who got lost from his parents at the temple and amazed his elders by his understanding.
and also the kh attitude that if it doesn't come from bethel it isn't true. a fascinating posting and sincere thanks for the ffort you have put in to writing it.
I'm Jewish. As far as I'm concerned, Jesus of Nazareth wasn't even the Messiah.
He didn't institute a "Memorial" of his death. In reality he had one last Passover and was killed the next day, never to rise from the grave.
His followers, unable to face the reality of it all, came up with stories to make a meaning out of his death. Jesus' "Last Supper" was just that, the last supper of what is now a dead man. The Christians invented their own mythology around that last meal of Jesus, but there was no real "Memorial" in historical terms.
Jesus of Nazareth is dead. He is not the Christ. He is not ruling from Heaven. The Memorial that JWs observe is therefore an empty observance.
So it doesn't matter what you say at this point. I'm not going to argue about a meaningless meeting annually observed by a cult about a dead man that was not the Messiah.
And please don't hijack this thread to become one about trying to convince a Jew that Jesus is the Messiah. You want to do that, make your own thread. I will not be participating however.
The objective of this thread is to show that the emblems used by JWs at their Memorial have both pagan and man-made origins. Just cutting and pasting what Watchtower publications claim do nothing to disprove the data I presented about the origins involved.
I am sorry my friend but I can't understand your reaction, if you can't have an intelligent exchange and listen to a different point of view, then you are acting like a hardcore JW. Don't worry about a hijacking of your thread I am done.
Sayonara and sorry if I aggravated you.
One thing I will say is that the use of wine at the passover is a human tradition, which, does not comport with the JW self-righteous mindset. How so?
- The Mosaic Law stipulated that the passover bread be unleavened.
- Leaven is used to symbolize sin.
- Wine is a "leavened" drink.
- Therefore, according to the JW self-righteous mindset, abstaining from leavened bread on the passover would also mean, in principle, abstaining from alcohol.
But the Jews started the tradition of drinking wine at the passover and Jesus, instead of being like a good self-righteous JW and condemning this tradition, co-opts it and uses the wine in his own memorial ritual. Thus it is shown that Jesus is very much not a JW and his willingness to use wine at his memorial celebration implicitly exposes the self-righteous nature of JW reasoning.
I wrote my response to you in peace, not aggravation. It is merely your personal opinion (and only yours) that it was not part of an intelligent exchange.
In fact, a great calm came to me from writing my response to you. The more I responded, the calmer and more at peace I became.
I always enjoy your posts David
Good to near from you,
Tepidpoultry Now that is a lesson we can all learn from!