Jehovah's Witnesses and the Great Crowd

by Meshech 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Searril

    Excellent write up. Thank you for sharing it.

  • MrExJW

    Prize goes Meshech for longest and most useless post.

    We all know that the WT is BS, thats why were are on this site.

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath


    Its beer oclock already

  • cofty

    Meshech I haven't read your OP yet but thanks for your post.

    Discovering the significance of the naos and seeing how the Watchtower lied about this in a Question From Readers was the moment I realised they were not just wrong but actually deceitful.

    It saddens me that other posters dismiss the potential of this sort of information to help questioning JWs who lurk here.


    I’m not sure you need to convince Ex-JWs of anything, but yes, actually comparing JWIsm to what the Bible says can be an eye opener.


  • johnamos

    Quote - This "other gospel" is preached by Jehovah's Witnesses and it proclaims that millions of Christians have a hope of everlasting life on earth, not in heaven. – End quote

    Paul in the following states that he is trying to attain the ‘upward call’ and he connects that with it being the ‘earlier resurrection'.

    [Philippians 3:11 to see if I may by any means attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pursuing to see if I may also lay hold on that for which I have also been laid hold on by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having laid hold on it; but there is one thing about it: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.]

    The mere use of the word ‘earlier' denotes that there must be more than one resurrection…so at least two of them, which would make the ‘earlier resurrection’ the 'first resurrection' and because he connects that resurrection with the ‘upward call’, that would indicate that he is speaking of a ‘heavenly resurrection'.

    Well the 'first resurrection' is said to be for those that will rule with Jesus as kings for 1,000 years. (Revelation 20:60) So if the second resurrection that comes AFTER the first one was also meant for those resurrected to also be in heaven, why would Paul need to point out that he is trying to obtain the ‘upward call'? If it were the case that both resurrections were heavenly, there would be no need to make such a claim.

    Also, if the second resurrection were not earthly, then what would be the point of those that are part of the 'first resurrection' that will rule as kings…why does it say that they will rule over the earth, if everyone is in heaven? (Revelation 5:10)

  • johnamos

    Quote - 'the word Trinity appears nowhere in the Bible', but neither is the phrase 'earthly hope' – end quote

    And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;

    And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

    “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

    For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing,

    saying: “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. 18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

    and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

  • waton
    Well the 'first resurrection' is said to be for those that will rule with Jesus as kings for 1,000 years. (Revelation 20:60) ja

    and that chapter stipulates that you have to be killed by the axe, aka Fallbeil, or guillotine to qualify. so: Count out Russel, Rutherford, Knorr & Franz.

    “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth. ja

    wt has even that taken away from the "Other sheep". it is the 144 000 that inherit the earth, because they are so meek, wt not boasting, chest pounding much all the time.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Excellent study Meshech!

    There is considerable evidence in Revelation itself that supports that the 144,000 and the Great Crowd are the same body....the entire church of God. John hears the perfect number and then turns to see the actual group. John uses this hearing and then seeing sequencing a number of time as a literary device to display his images. eg. John hears a lion and turns to see the lamb.

    How is God to describe a numberless body of believers who are destined to go through "polus" tribulation to die to self and to enter the kingdom. A symbol of perfection and absolute symmetry will do; the number of Israel multiplied by the number of apostles of the lamb times a 1000 representing many.

  • FedUpJW

    Just throwing a comment out for what it's worth.

    There MIGHT be a so-called pair of dice earth with people living on it like the original GOE, IF one were to actually believe the Genesis account. And IF one were to believe the GC and Jesus words about "other sheep" etc. why couldn't there be THREE groups with TWO destinations? A bunch of naked people petting pandas forever on earth, a Great Crowd (no definite number) in heaven and the so-called "little flock" of the alleged 144,000?

    Just $.02 worth.

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