Who is this 'god' you speak of?
The same one watching innocent people tortured, raped, maimed, molested, starved, beaten......with the power to stop it.....but just keeps watching?
Suffering and existence of God
by elbib 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Fisherman
What is the difference between a bird and a dinosaur? I cannot understand the reason why disease and suffering should have existed before the fall of man-unless satan had something to do with it or such events actually occurred after the fall. Whatever the truth will prove to be, I cannot accuse God of evil because he is the standard (ruler) of good and bad and not me. The book of job teaches us that things are not always what they seem, just look at something as obvious as the sun-its movement is an illusion. The stars in the sky, some are not even there any more, a static and flat earth... "Let your name be sanctified." I will wait and see. -
defender of truth
elbib 11 hours ago
Dear defenderoftruth,
I can try answering to your question why animals suffer.
Let us first take an overall picture. Bible itself says all (including animals) were vegetarians to start with.
... How long this perfect situation remained we do not know, but what we do know is that it was a perfect start. Then some of the humans turn hunters (Genesis 10:9) This upsets the perfect environment where some of the animals too turn hunters. Please note, man set the pattern first and animals just followed humans.
@Elbib
Where is the evidence for this? Animals were not changed to carnivores after man started hunting.
There were carnivores roaming the earth long before Eden.
Carnivores existed before mankind.
Predators existed for at least thousands, if not millions, of years before humans. Evidence for an omnivore or carnivore diet comes from examining body shape, teeth, fossilised stomach contents and coprolites (faeces). Whilst Watchtower may disagree on the million year ages given for these fossils, there is no doubt from where they exist in rock strata levels that they predate humans by lengthy periods of time.
Following evidence from the fossil record show ancient carnivores in the act of consuming other animals...
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OnTheWayOut
It seems they feel that it is God’s obligation to shield humans from ill-effects of their short-sighted acts.
On the subject of natural disaster:
Not to start a flame that leads to a forest fire, but I have heard people say that it is the parents' short-sightedness that causes them to continue living in a tsunami-prone or earthquake-prone area, so why would God do anything to save their children?
To this type of thinking, I say that every place on earth is subject to some kind of disaster. And not all people can simply pick up and move away from "the coast" or the "the open plains" or "the mountain area." If people die in a blizzard, flood, tornado, tsunami, earthquake, mudslide, avalanche, lightning storm, yadda yadda, there can be pause to wonder what God had to do with it. Firm believers are confident that God had absolutely nothing to do with it, and that's fine. But when perhaps greater than 100,000 children are swept away in a tsunami, the simple question arises: If I had the power to prevent that, wouldn't I?
Should I just say that humans have short-sight by daring to live where it is possible for such tragedy to happen? Where should they live?
I could ponder that same inaction by God concerning children born with birth defects that cause great suffering. How dare those parents have children.
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sparky1
"Please note, man set the pattern first and animals just followed humans."- elbib
You are so right, elbib. Animals are always following the patterns humans set:
I have a job...my cat has a job.
I have a bank account...my cat has a bank account.
I pay my bills...my cat pays her bills.
I drive a car...my cat drives a car.
I go on vacation...my cat goes on vacation.
I phone my brother now and again...my cat phones her relatives now and again.
I like to read...my cat likes to read.
Yes, the entire animal kingdom is certainly patterning itself after the behavior of humans.
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redvip2000
In the beginning humans were like gods in qualities and character, and lived in a perfect system of things for an indefinite period of time. When people had everything in abundance, it seems at some point they turned towards sadistic pursuit (Genesis 10:9) and its attendant vices
The fact that you believe this nonsense, pretty much seals the deal on the fact that nobody will be able to reason with you. You obviously have little interest in science, archaeology, or history. Here you are, going to great lengths to excuse the inexcusable. That god is good no matter what. If he doesn't help humans, well it's because he is not required to. If he doesn't provide clear guidelines that leave no question as to what he wants, it's because it's our fault that we don't understand. If he doesn't even provide undisputed evidence that he exists, well he provides enough, but we don't see it.
On a final analysis, god can't be held to any standards of decency or logic, only to crow bar the idea that he is supposed to be good. He doesn't need to help anybody, do anything useful, or even be transparent or clear. Nope, none of those logical things should apply to god. We just need to know he is god and that that he loves, right?
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sparky1
Thank you, Cofty. I was searching for that website and couldn't find it. -
redvip2000
No one can deny that the universe is the outcome of intelligent placing. It is unusual. We, too, are unusual.
So is an ice crystal or a rainbow, what's your point? Men have been pointing to the skies for thousands of years looking for a supernatural explanation of what they can't explain themselves. Haven't we been through this before?
From the Sun being God, to thunder being the voice of God, thousands of things had a supernatural explanation, until of course they were explained by science.How many times must we go through this pathetic exercise of using magic to explain what we don't know...yet? Just like we laugh at the folks who thought the Sun was God, so will future human civilizations laugh at us (you), for thinking that a magic man in the sky was responsible to creating the universe.
Isn't time we grow up and come to grips with the fact that it's ok to not know everything about everything at a moment in time?
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OnTheWayOut
Elbib: Even now we kill innocent species for our pleasure which only last for a second or two. When we ourselves support the concept of killing innocent living beings, is it proper to ask: Why doesn’t God put an end the death of children? Let us do what is within our power first, then question God.
I like the ridiculous fairy tale at the beginning of your comment (that I didn't bother to include in my quote). We started out as primitives and have advanced a little. We developed that nasty trait of killing for something other than food or protection.
As to the part I did quote, I can only say that your statements lead to the conclusion that God is no better than mankind. Many of us kill for sport or for selfish reasons, so we can't question God about it. Since God is an invention of man, I will agree.But this is a nice try. Us humans did it first, the animals copied us. God lets us wallow in our choices. If only there weren't mountains of evidence against such a primitive belief. Just as some people have outgrown killing for sport, some have also outgrown your primitive belief position.