Do you have a biblical reference
Lazarus for one.
New Light, New Light!
by BoogerMan 36 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Fisherman
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ozziepost
For those non-christians and those who are simply ex-JW:
if you’ve read through this thread you would be mightily put-off, but let me assure you that this does NOT portray the christian faith or belief.
The christian faith is so much more than what is described on this thread and advocated by a random use of scripture texts.
Cheers,
Ozzie 🍷
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punkofnice
It's reading stuff like this that reminds me just how utterly boring the Jobot 'teachings(tm)' are.
Other religions are so much more fun.
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BluesBrother
I would call it boring… It is radical in claiming that the world faces imminent judgment and destruction.
As for the resurrection, I must have missed something because I always used to believe that judgment was for what they did after they came back…. Their death having wiped the slate clean of their past sins…
So according to the dubs a dead gangster can get salvation and life , but a clean living apostate like us , alive at the end gets eternal death……
Go figure?
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TonusOH
I think the WTS always marched to its own beat. Russell had teachings that differed from mainstream Christianity, and Rutherford seemed to want to make that the norm. As if to show that JWs had THE truth, he made sure to deviate from as many mainstream positions as he could. When I was a JW, I was only aware that (1)JWs had the correct interpretation of scripture and (2)every other Christian denomination was wrong.
Once I was out, it became like the old saying: if everyone else disagrees with you, maybe the problem isn't with everyone else.
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Sea Breeze
Why would anyone believe that there will be a resurrection of people to life on earth?
Fisherman says because Lazarus was resurrected
And shadoclone cites Ps. 37: 29 where: the righteous will inherit the land
That is not much evidence and in fact the bible never says ANYONE would ever be resurrected to eternal life on earth does it? The bible says just the opposite:
2 Corinthians 5:1-4
For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Daniel 12:3
Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.
Romans 6:5
For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
Romans 6:8
Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
Colossians 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. (glory is a reference to heaven)
1 Thess. 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
Jn 14:3
I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
It is the surviving nations after the GT that serendipitously inherit the earth to live in the Millennium Kingdom on earth during the 1000 reign. After the Great Tribulation there will be a "Judgement of the Nations" to determine who gets let in. Both groups (the sheep and the goats) are confused as to why they have received either a pass to enter, or were condemned to be slaughtered on the spot. Jesus answers that it is based upon their actions and attitudes toward the nation of Israel during the GT that determines their sentence. "To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these, my brothers, you did it to me.
At this point the church is gone from the earth. We are already in heaven, have glorified physical bodies like Jesus that are fit for life in heaven and earth as administrators.
The resurrection of the unrighteous is really a resurrection of damnation.
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. - John 5: 29
These two resurrections do not happen at the same time. The resurrection of the righteous happens when Jesus returns for the church at the rapture and we are changed and resurrected (if already dead) in the twinkling of an eye and meet the Lord in the air.
The resurrection of the unrighteous unto damnation happens 1000 years or so later, after the Millennium reign at the Great white throne. Here, the unrighteous will stand trial as whole resurrected people body, soul and spirit. Having rejected the work of Jesus on the cross on their behalf, books will be opened and they will be judged "according to their works".After this the universe will be rolled up like a scroll and recreated. Then we will experience eternity in heaven and earth forever. But, there is a lot to happen before that time.
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Vanderhoven7
The take on the new light seems to be,....your death still pays for your sins committed in this life, but you will have a lot of apologizing to do in the new system. David will have to apologize to Uriah for example. But it looks like Canada and Trudeau may be absolved from this having already apologized for everything except breathing.
I'll have to read the whole article
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Longlivetherenegades
The doctrinal change is laughable.
Issue 1 from the article: In the past, we understood
Who are the WE?
1. The Governing body of Jehovah's.
2. The members who are going to PARROT what they didn't understand in the first place.
Issue 2 from the article: That makes sense, does it not?
Nothing really make sense in the first place. The members only have to obey and get indoctrinated. After all
1. even those teachings and directions that does not make sense are meant to be obeyed and adhered to.
2. The members never had the opportunity or say in doing or deciding what makes sense or not.
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Disillusioned JW
Well the WT's new interpretation of John 5:27 (as described in the first post of this topic thread) is now in harmony with Daniel 12:2, and the Bible's stated time frame for the fulfillment of that is revealed in Daniel 12:1. It also means that the WT teaching is now closer to evangelical Christianity, for it means that the WT is saying a person's 'fate', regarding whether or not one will receive eternal life, is determined before their death.
I wonder if this means the has, or soon will, change their teaching those who become resurrected in the Paradise New Order.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze and others, I notice that the WT is still saying that people are acquitted upon death and I notice that the WT is still saying that those resurrected upon Earth will judged by their deeds performed during the 1,000 years. I see that mentioned in paragraphs 15 through 18 of the study article. There paragraph 18 of 'STUDY ARTICLE 39: Is Your Name in “the Book of Life”?' of the "The Watchtower—Study Edition | September 2022" says the following.
'Based on what “deeds” will resurrected ones be judged? Will it be the deeds they practiced before they died? No! Remember, they were acquitted of their previous sins when they died. Here, then, “their deeds” cannot be deeds from their former life. Rather, these must refer to their deeds in response to their training in the new world. Even such faithful men as Noah, Samuel, David, and Daniel will have to learn about Jesus Christ and exercise faith in his sacrifice. How much more so will the unrighteous!'
Paragraph 16 of the same study article says the following. "What about those who practiced vile things before they died? Although their sins were canceled at death, they have not established a record of faithfulness. They do not have their names written in the book of life. ... Only if these unrighteous ones reject their former wicked course of life and dedicate themselves to Jehovah can they have their names written in the book of life."
As a result, according to the current WT view the JW woman who killed her family and then committed suicide would still be resurrected, and the suicidal murderous JW woman would be judged by the deeds she committed during the thousand years. According to the article, upon her resurrection her name would not be in the book of life, but that if she rejects a wicked course during the 1,000 years then at the end of the 1,000 years her name could become written in the book of life.
Sea Breeze I appreciate you mentioning that though the NWT says "acquitted" in Romans 6:7 that the KJV says "freed". I notice that the NASB also says "freed" in that verse and that such wording to me seems more in harmony with verses 4-6 of the same chapter.
Folks, I notice that the Life Application Study Bible, New American Standard Bible--Updated Edition (copyright 2000 by Zondervan) says that Christians who have put their faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ are acquitted by Jesus. In the note for Romans 6:6 it says in part the following. 'The power and penalty of sin died with Christ on the cross. Our "old self," our sinful nature, died once for all, so we are freed from its power. .... And it is this power of sin at work in our body that is defeated. Paul has already stated that through faith in Christ we stand acquitted, "not guilty" before God. Here Paul emphasizes that we need no longer live under sin's power. God does not take us out of the world or make us robots--we will still feel like sinning, and sometimes we will sin. The difference is that before we were saved we were slaves to our sinful nature, but now we can choose to live for Christ (see Galatians 2;20).'
Notice that the Study Bible used the word "acquitted' in reference to what Paul said in Romans prior to Romans 6:6. Maybe the WT wrote "acquitted" (instead of "freed") in the NWT translation of Romans 6:7 due to a misunderstanding of what Paul said in earlier verses in Romans of being acquitted by Jesus, as a result of Christians being baptized metaphorically into Christ's death (verses 3-5).
Notice also that the Study Bible says that 'born again' Christians sometimes will sin, but (according to scripture) they are no longer slaves to sin and/or no longer practice sin. I think that description applies also to devout JWs who have an earthly hope. For example, ever since several years prior to my baptism as a JW (I was raised as a JW from infancy) I have striven to avoid doing sin, though according to the Bible I still committed minor sins from to time. (According to parts of the Bible all humans who ever lived, other than Jesus, have sinned). Several years prior to baptism (while still teen and a minor) I accepted the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ and I continued to accept that later while I was a JW and later while I was an independent Christian. That is despite me having the expectation of living on a paradise Earth instead going to heaven. [But in the final two years of me being an independent Christian I thought I might be in heaven for a period time, such as during the great tribulation and maybe also during the 1,000 years.] But how is that striving to avoid doing wrong, and that living a mostly morally good life any different from that of many people who were never Christians, and even of atheists who never were Christians? I think it is no different, except that the motivations might be different in some respects (such as not due to a commitment to Christ).
Many atheists realize that certain actions are bad and unwise and thus rationally strive to avoid doing those actions. For example many atheists have never murdered, never stole, never committed adultery, never committed fornication, are law abiding, and have striven to always tell truth and to avoid being mean, etc.