MUST READ - NEWSPAPER ARTICLE

by SHUNNED FATHER 39 Replies latest jw friends

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  Simon

  I think very few people (possible just one) think what Island Woman posted.

  We met lawrence last year when we were visiting Canada and he's a nice guy. His life and family has been torn apart by this and it isn't his fault. It isn't the mothers fault either. I think the WTS and their insistence on people following their commandments for their own agenda and protection is the reason the happened.

  Bethany was very ill and needed the best medical treatment available, not the WTS using her as "an example" (which they have done at UK assemblies)

  Would things have been so bad, would as much hurt have been caused, would a family have been torn apart if the WTS had not been involved in this?

  Who the hell do they (the WTS) think they are to get involved and start telling parents the treatment they should and should not be allowed to give their daughter? Who are they to deny a father the right to be with his daughter during her final moments and say goodbye?

  Shame on you WTS, you are sick, evil scum and you will reap what you sow.
• 

  Simon

  One other point ...

  Don't forget that this action is not entirely about Bethany but also about his other daughter who he should have contact with and does not want to see harmed by the WTS upbringing.

  Like it says, if it saves just one other person it will be worth it.
• 

  Uzzah

  Island Woman:

  I understand where you are coming from and partially agree with your point of view.

  The criminal charge comment was based on the mother's actions of attemtping to rip the IV tubes from her daughter's arms and encouraging Bethany to do the same. This is irresponsible and has nothing to do with religion. It is reckless endangerment.

  I am not sure if your family went to that extreme (or would have) but if they had then yes they should be charged.

  I know in Canada, as a result of the Boer decision, it is going to be a much tougher time for a JW teen to be declared a mature minor from now on. So hopefully it will become a non-issue for kids and teens in the near future.

  Uzzah
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  cat1759

  This is heart wrenching. The sadness that all who have lost a loved one due to doctrine.

  No matter how many times we sit and laugh at all the stuff done in the past the new situations come up and it hurts all over again.

  The Father is trying to save his little girl. What should he do? He has seen her three times in a year. My god my ex is not a really good person but my kids see him on a regular basis and they are older.

  This woman is hurting him because he does not believe like she does. There is no reason to keep a child away from another parent unless it is detrimental to the child. He loves his little girl and needs to see her. Yes both parents lost their little girl but where is the love of the mother? If she loved her daughter she would make sure that her daughter has visitation to the father. You do not use your kids in this battle. You show them love and let them make their own decisions.

  The mother will have to live with her decisions and the loss forever. The Father will live with this loss and further loss because he doesn't get to see his little girl forever. Because the child is 16 she needs to be with her father. Who is fathering her right now, Elders encouraging her to stay strong and when this all settles she will be ripped in two because she didn't have access to her father and the elders move on to another dispute. What kind of emotional stress is being induced on this young woman? The parents made their decisions. They are both suffereing, struggling but the Father is getting a double whammy because not only did he lose a child in death, he lost a child through conditioning of the society and his wife's unbalanced view of child custody.

  Show some love you Jack asses of JWS. You are ruining another wonderful family! Is that your job in this world, to ruin as many as you can? Don't worry Jesus words, you hurt the least one, you hurt me. Retribution is God's and I can't wait to see recogning day for you.

  Cathy
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  obiwan

  Shunned Father lost a daughter, but so did his wife. Shunned Father now wants to charge his wife with a crime. The crime of what? Doing what he himself also once believed?

  The ket here IW is "once", he realized how wrong his beliefs are and so took the action a loving parent should. Just because you believe in something that will ultimitely cause someone harm or even death, doesn't make it right. Shunned Father knew the outcome of the decision if he were to refuse her blood, rational thinking told him that. I once responded to a post that consisted of defining a person to thier beliefs and if it made them wrong for thinking or believing it. I told that person it doesn't matter what you believe or do, as long as it doesn't impede rational thinking. Ask yourself this, is it rational to deny anyone medical treatment to save a life, not your sons or daughters, anyone's? No, it's not, then how can you call what the mother did a loving act. If you or I are standing by someone and they are in desperate need of attention to save thier lives and we did nothing, I can tell you the prosecuter would be finding something to charge you or I with, possibly negligence. At the very least she should lose custody of her daughter, history repeats itself.What would someone say to Shunned Father if he loses another child in like manner....denied life saving attention, a simple car accident could put him in the same situation.

  How can anyone deny thier child life?!
• 

  hawkaw

  Spanner,

  As Uzziah stated:

  The mother did try to rip the tubes out the daughter's arms in the hospital and was stopped by the nurses. That was in the papers back in about March/April 2002.

  I still think it is assault and battery and not crimminal negligence. Crimminal negligence is more for doctors or people in professions or licenced individuals who in the course of their duties do something that is knowingly wreckless.

  As for the request to delete the post. Absolutely not. The debate is a good one.

  hawk
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  xjw_b12

  Island Woman. Thank you for clarifying your first comment, and thank you to Uzzah for expanding on that line of thought.

  It has been a horrific time for both the mother and father, who both devoutly believe that their course of action is the right one. Sadly as we and Lawrence know, the WTBTS is bloodquilty, and they are accesories to murder.

  I believe Lawrence's sole motive for custody, would be to prevent a similar situation happening with Cassandra. I hope he is successful, and that Arliss can come to her senses.

  I remember the Cyrene case here in Thunder Bay had a similar tragic outcome, and it sickens me to see the WTBTS continue the cause for their own selfish reasons.

  I imagine if Cassandra is living with her mother, and Arliss has commented that Cassandra should be free to make the decision of who she lives with, that Lawrence has an uphill battle, to convince the courts, then to deprogram Cassandra.

  Can someone enlighten me as to who filed the petition for divorce and on what grounds?

  Simon wrote:

  Bethany was very ill and needed the best medical treatment available, not the WTS using her as "an example" (which they have done at UK assemblies)

  Could Satan himself be so dispicable. Is there any difference between the WTBTS sacrificing children, and the Baal worshipers they so haughtily condemn.

  My thought and hopes go out to the whole family. And to Brittany / Mia.....we love you and miss you.
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  IslandWoman

  While I don't understand how someone can be charged with assault when doing something which is either agreed upon or requested by the other person, I would not have posted as I did at the beginning of this thread had the charge been one of assault and battery rather than criminal negligence.

  How anyone could have been a JW and taught others the JW doctrine but now as exJWs do not understand why JWs sacrifice their children is beyond my capability to understand. Why belong to such a demanding religion if you don't really believe it? (I am not speaking about Shunned Father but about some exJWs who now say they would never have let their children die when they were JWs.)

  All baptized adults, who attended meetings and participated in field service also gave their tacit support to the blood doctrine. All the children in their hall could rightly think that brother or sister so and so also believes that to take blood is against God's law. How could we as adults not recognize the need to be damn sure what we are, who we are and what we teach? It is hard for me to understand that some baptized adults just sat around a KH not believing the blood doctrine. This is life and death, wake up people and take responsibility for your actions, if you as adults sat at the KH and gave any kind of support to the Tower you also sanctioned the Blood Doctrine. Silence is not golden in this case it is complicity.

  The fact of our previous support for the Watchtower Blood Doctrine cannot be annulled, every JW adult is responsible for supporting the Blood Doctrine. We all did, if not by word then by silence.

  This post is not directed at any one individual on this thread but to the exJW community as a whole.

  IW
• 

  cat1759

  IW,
  You bring up some good questions.

  I am not sure today I would still except blood but not because of the organization but because of how I feel inside.

  For my children I would never have let them have blood as it was against the doctrines I believed in. On the other hand I would be having my ex fighting me tooth and nail and he would always prevail.

  When I was six my Mom was miscarrying. She lost alot of blood before dad could get her to the drs.

  The house was a huge blood bath, the car.

  We were sent of to the elders house because mom wasn't going to make it.

  At the hospital Dad called and told the elder that my mom was dieing. The elder then sat and explained that we might not see our mom ever again but that Jehovah will take care of everything. You see, Mom was bleeding out at the hospital and she refused blood. The nurses were upset the dr was upset but mom stuck to her guns. Her fingernails were turning black but she would not give in.

  We didn't see our dad for two days. We already knew mom might not come home. But Jehovah will take care of us.

  My Mom lived through it. It was a miracle in actuality because the drs couldnt explain it. Was it her faith, her resolve to live? I don't know but I do know one thing, she survived.

  I just feel that when making this kind of decision to indoctrinate our children is a heavy burden. My kids will do what they will because along the way I told them no matter what, they must do what their heart is telling them in spite of what men say to them.

  We all live and learn through what we have been taught. We make choices because at that time we feel it is the best choice. Does it make it right or wrong? No. It just is. It all happens. Just like taking blood, it is what we feel comfortable with. We we are able to allow in our own reality.

  My ex mother in law was dieing. She was a witness. She was so cold in the end. Cancer was eating her up inside. She could never get warm even if it was 100 degrees outside. In the end she felt it didnt matter, her life didn't matter. She took infusions to stop the coldness and they only lasted three days. Was she wrong, no. She wanted to be comfortable when she died. Did it save her life? NO! Will she be on God's sh-- list forever? NO! He doesn't have a sh-- list.

  Cathy
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  SpannerintheWorks

  Hawkaw, thanks for replying:

  The mother did try to rip the tubes out the daughter's arms in the hospital and was stopped by the nurses. That was in the papers back in about March/April 2002.

  I wasn't following this 16 months ago. But if indeed what you say is correct, wouldn't that have been mentioned in this latest article? It seemed to me that Lawrence was asking charges to be made against his ex-wife due to her refusal to allow doctors to give Bethany blood transfusions.However, if that is an oversight of the media, then shame on them. Perhaps Lawrence will settle the matter next time he visits here.

  Spanner