Hi Gam,
I think your between-the-lines interest in Josephus would prove interesting if you have more to share or point us to. It is very difficult to read Josephus without wondering whether or how he is twisting his sources to compromise textual contradictions or create a version that fits somewhere between a loyalty to Jewish tradition and Roman tradition. (By tradition, I include historical documentation and references.) I see a very conflicted person, torn between loyalties.
Fair assessment, but the Jewish tradition of having cryptic writings was well established by now, the book of Esther, for instance, historically really a cryptic reference to Nehemiah who appears in character as both Esther and Mordecai (a play on his Babylonian name). It is easy to see how Nehemiah became a woman, though if you read Jewish folkloric accounts of Nehemiah who is depicted as an effeminate individual, clearly infatuated with Artaxerxes. In fact a version I read while checking out resources at the Holocaust Museum in Los Angeles, which had many Jewish works (some mercifully translated) depicted Nehemiah, when requesting to return to his homeland, as sitting on the king's lap and "blinking his eyes at him." This reflected upon Nehemiah's being a eunuch (emasculated), etc. But often when revising history, some of the original elements can be dealt with by dividing a single character and what they did into two different ones, but connected somehow. In this case, Nehemiah, because the original works of Ezra/Nehemiah had to be suppressed and the apocryphal "Esdras" basically left off the Nehemiah part, becomes both Esther and Mordecai, one character handling the request to return to the homeland and save his people and the other reflecting on how Nehemiah rose to be the "prime minister" (same position as chief cupbearer) to Artaxerxes. Same thing was done with "Darius the Mede" where he appears as "Ugbaru" and "Gubaru"; one character being with Cyrus as he conquered Babylon (then he dies in short order), the other as "governor" who rules fo 14 years, precisely the total number of years of the governorship (8 years) and kingship (6 years) of Darius, the Mede.
You asked for an example in Josephus. Case in point, Josephus places "Esther" after Ezra and Nehemiah and during the reign of "Artaxerxes" as does the LXX, and places Ezra and Nehemiah during the reign of his "father", Xerxes. The Bible, of course, never mentions any Xerxes and we know that Xerxes and Artaxerxes were the same king. We also know from this version of Esther that it is not an inspired book since it contradicts the chronology of the Bible, one that some have used to place Esther during the reign of "Ahasuerus" believed to be Xerxes and Ezra-Nehemiah in their proper places with Artaxers. But Josephus is just the opposite. But...when you consider that Josephus must have known Xerxes and Artaxerxes were the same king, and that Esther and Mordecai were cryptic historical references to Nehemiah, it's not that much of a contradiction. That is, it WAS during the reign of Xerxes that Ezra and Nehemiah interacted, and also Esther and Mordecai since that is a reference to Nehemiah as well. This passage, of course, leads one to understand they were both the same king.
So if you want to start with an example, start with that one. It's very interesting. Read carefully the histories of Ezra, Nehemiah and Esther. You'll be amazed.
By the way, Josephus' indications along with Luke (who may have been using Josphus or equivalent sources,) might indicate a life of Jesus closer to 6 BC through early or mid-20's AD. Apparently (to me) most of the Gospels intended a date closer to 29 or 30 for the crucifiction, but they were written so far after the facts that a few years before (or even after) wouldn't have been impossible, in which case the more accepted dates for Herod's death or Quirinius' census and an earlier Roman dating for Pilate could also work out.
Interesting but impossible. Reason being Josephus gives TWO RULERSHIPS for Herod. One 34 years and one 37 years. Hello? If ever there was an indicator of revised chronology that's one. You can also find coordinated references to the historical date of the temple being built by Herod alternatively in his 18th year or 15th year. So that is a date that works with either dating. If we were to presume, based on this alone, that there was a revision, it would understood that there was just a 3-year revision and that the original chronology for Herod was a 37-year reign beginning in 37CE, which would date his death on Shebat 2, 1 AD. When you combine that with the eclipse event he reported on in close connection with Herod's death, it's clear he understood and was pointing to the correct date of 1AD for Herod's death. Note that this eclipse has been transferred to 4BCE since an eclipse happened then, but the eclipse happens March 13/14, which would be 6-10 weeks AFTER Herod's death on Shebat 2. Thus Josephus never considered that eclipse. The eclipse must happen within a few weeks of Herod's death, and this is the ONLY REFERENCE. So in this case, my references would preempt the idea that Josephus was serious about the revised chronology of Herod's reign. He basically gives us the better date of 1AD; consistent with the Biblical dating, of course, of Jesus' birth in 2BCE. I don't mind others being critical of the NT dating, but not at deference to an equal critique of everybody else. Each source has to stand on it's own. Facts that are corroborated over several sources are presumed to be correct. In this case, Josephus corroborates (independently) Herod's death in 1AD so presumed to be true since the Bible/NT does as well.
Curiously, John who is the most clear of all the Gospels about presenting a specific timespan for Jesus' ministry has a crowd guessing Jesus age at closer to 50 rather than closer to 30. I guess something must have been taking a toll on that perfect body. Gamaliel
You lost me here. Is there a specific verse/reference for this about Jesus being 50 at his death? And that would be really interesting since the specific year of his death was 33CE if he had a 3-1/2 year ministry beginning in the "15th of Tiberius" which was 28/29CE. ??
Further there are other complications for moving Jesus' death around since Passover must occur on a Friday and that does not often happen, 30CE and 33CE are your only two choices here.
Thanks for letting me know about John's reference to his age being around 50...
Canon
