Jehovah’s Witness Logical Fallacies.pt1

by Brummie 27 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Brummie

  Jehovah’s Witness Logical Fallacies.pt1

  In fact, many of the bad experiences people have with JWs are caused by actions that the Society does not encourage.

  Logan I have started a new thread simply because if a JW read your old one they may be happy enough not go back to reread this if it was posted there.

  One of the things that kept me holding on to the JW faith was the thought that many of the bad experiences people have with Jws are caused by actions the Soceity does not encourage. It was the local elders and not the Society!

  This meant that if local JWs were killing each other I would have still believed the Society was “the truth”…. I know some of my family are still thinking this way and that’s why they stay inside.

  Recently I was talking to a JW who didn’t know me, she explained to me that “Panorama” was a result of a few bad apples in amongst the elders. She failed to see that the “2 witness rule” was the real problem that had caused the elders to act the way they did. It wasn’t a local thing it was international doctrine. It is the Societies fault. The Society is “the bad apple”.

  While not acknowledging it is their fault the Society will fly swiftly to offer a safe haven to an elder that has been blamed for handling an abuse case in an improper manner. Why? Because it’s the Societies fault that children are suffering, and they know it. By offering the elder a safe haven the Society are not being kind, they are merely manipulating the elder into keeping his mouth shut about their policies. Sort of “We are looking after you, so don’t bite the hand that feeds you…or else!”

  The JW mentioned earlier isn’t on her own when she blames the local elders for all the problems; the Society is quick to blame the elders too. There is a scripture that says, “The wicked woman wipes her mouth and pretends she did no wrong”. The Society must have raw lips.

  To blame the local elders for most of the wrongs is in fact THE real logical fallacy and a mental “escape” route for the JW who has been taught to defend the Society at all costs. The reason local elders act harsh is due to the Societies teaching that they have the authority to “Shepard the flock”, and we all know what that means don’t we? The number one question in an elders mind is “Do you still believe that the Society is Gods channel of communication?” If the person answers “no” the wrath of the Society will be delivered through the local elder. While the elder is responsible for his actions he is merely acting out the role the Society has staged for him. It is the Societies fault that many of us experienced the cruelty of the local elders. The local elder is simply putting the Societies doctrines into practice. The root of the real problem is sitting in a lofty place in Brooklyn…and its lips are swollen & raw.

  Whatever “crime” the local elders commit are mostly a product of Brooklyn. Therefore we, exjws, do no wrong when we judge the Society for the actions of the local elders, so we shouldn’t feel guilty when we place the blame on the doorstep of where it belongs.

  Logan your thread talking about the “logical fallacies of apostates” was very interesting, but In my opinion, it was filled with fallacy itself since exjw issues are seldom caused by local elders but rather the indoctrination of the “mother” herself. No one lost sleep because a local Jw said "The TV is demonised" or that "M&Ms had blood in them". If a JW reading this is now thinking what a shallow lot we are, then they are still misunderstanding this whole board.

  In saying that, the Society did outline a talk that said "there is a thief in your house" and it addressed the problems with watching TV. It later added that the "Thief has now brought a friend along" it meant the video.! Combined these items were stealing our time and demonising our minds. So even these little light hearted things are a product of the Society.

  I'll address the real issues in the next post...

  Brummie
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  Brummie

  Part 2. The real issues.

  The mental anguish of most exjws cannot be blamed on the local elders but fairly on the Society. It is the mental manipulation of the cult that causes us who have doubts to live a nightmare existence. NOT the shady activity of a local elder.

  We were taught that leaving the Society means we would lose Gods protection for both our family and us as individuals. In a similar fashion to Job, we could cause the untimely death of other people by losing that protective barrier. That is a very real threat when one is brainwashed. Is that the local elders fault? A cultist ends up watching his/her every step, taking precautions, looking for fire exits in crowded rooms, checking electrical goods, We live to avoid death. What a cruel mental trap the Society has us in, this compares nothing to a shady elder.

  Where do we go? This question installed in us by the Society causes us another mental battle. We begin to live a “wilderness” existence.

  Until we learn to ask the question “what are we going away from?” we will continue to live that wilderness for years. SO what are we going away from? Years of mental and spiritual abuse. 100 years of false prophetic speculation. A 100 year history of lies and innocent peoples deaths (re: organs, vaccinations, serums) which are casually labelled “Mistakes” and get nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders. Outright dishonesty, solecism, and a rewriting and selective editing of the Bible.

  Where do we go from here? Answer/ As far away as we can possibly get.

  We are taught we will never again see our family members who have died. This itself holds us hostage to the Watchtower. Its not a local elder thing, it’s the Societies fault.

  We were taught that thinking independently is a gift from the devil! That doctrine brings us many sleepless hours! I don’t need to go into the mental problems that causes.

  We are taught that we are evil if we question the Society, then feelings of worthlessness are added to all of the above.

  The list is endless…but hopefully that will stop a JW from rubbing their hands together at the thought that all the problems of people here were caused by “local elders” and not the Society.
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  Big Tex

  In reading your two posts I'm feeling a little like Forrest Gump, "I'm not a smart man . . ."

  I do think you make a good point. You place blame squarely where it belongs. And although I have big time issues with elders, I do recognize that they are being used and are as misled as the rest of us were. I think the same thing applies to COs, and DOs.

  But at some point a man of good conscience must stand up and say "I go this far and no further." At some point, say a judicial committee where a woman is being grilled about her rape, doesn't the elder have to accept responsibility for his conduct? I agree that all things come from Brooklyn, but I also believe that an elder must look at the impact of their own conduct on the Great Unwashed. I think in particular of my father in law's death. While the Society set the parameters, I just have to believe that those 3 elders on his committee, indeed the entire elder body did not have to behave as they did. They did not have to be as cruel and hound the man as they did. It is instances such as this that I believe elders, COs and DOs must accept personal responsibilty.
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  core

  At some point, say a judicial committee where a woman is being grilled about her rape, doesn't the elder have to accept responsibility for his conduct? I agree that all things come from Brooklyn, but I also believe that an elder must look at the impact of their own conduct on the Great Unwashed.

  Some years back I sat on a committee re a rape and it was handled in a kindly manner - no indecent questions, no improper suggestions as to what the woman was doing to 'lead to' the rape.

  All the elders were deeply concerned for the woman and her emotional well-being - we were also aware that we skirted the official WT policy and did not consider it our place to discuss how the poor woman resisited the unwarranted attack. We knew what we were dealing with and knew the innocent woman - we did not need to have here recite soime natra by rote "I Screamed..." etc to assure us of her blamelessness

  We all felt that we had no right to even meet this person other than as shepherds - not the line approved when the CO turned up and the gossip mills started - in these situations the SISTERS start forest fires of gossip which do immeasurable harm

  Incidents like this really separate the elders into those who care for the flock and the faithful WT herders of cattle.
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  SixofNine

  While the Society set the parameters, I just have to believe that those 3 elders on his committee, indeed the entire elder body did not have to behave as they did.

  It's a hard one, figuring this stuff out. Maybe, those men did have to behave the way they did, givin their beliefs and training and personality flaws up to that point.

  Nobody's perfect, we all know that. The trouble is, these men, with their various imperfections, get into a situation where the cancer that is the organization exacerbates their personality flaws. Viola, another mortally depressessed soul, another suicide, hopefully more often, another apostate.

  See, Jehovah could use imperfect men and not have these kinds of problems. He could train them to be loving and kind and gentle. He could toss out the rule book, or, better yet, make it a useful, helpful tool. He could give them an understanding of human pyschology. He could make sure that men with outrageously dangerous personality flaws were never in a position of power in the congregation.

  But he doesn't. Instead, the societies flaws exacerbate the human flaws of the elders, ministerial servants, and in fact, all Jehovahs Witnesses. This is especially a problem because while negative traits are exacerbated, there is no real championing of positive qualities.

  We've talked alot about masturbation on this discussion board, perhaps its time to talk more about exacerbation.

  Just another take on it, Tex. It doesn't make those three wonks any better people.
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  Brummie

  BT I am with you 101%, the elders are personally responsible. My point is that this responsibilty has been given them by the Society. The Society has never told an elder how far they can take this misplaced authority they have given them. In saying that 2 wrongs dont make a right so both the elders and the Society are in the wrong.

  The coldness of the elders is also a product of a Society that surpresses natural emotions.

  I once sat before a Judicial Committee, it made me physically sick. But I sat there and took it. Why? Because the Society taught me that I had to. I was indoctrinated into believing that these men were spokesman for Gods organisation. The root of the problem is the Society, the elders and our submission are offsprings of the root. I take personal responsibility but I also acknowledge that I was connected to the root and THAT root was the real problem. If there was no root there would be no abusive elders.

  Core thank you for sharing. I think there should never have been a judicial meeting in the first place, see the problem is the root. This should have been discussed sensitively within a local police station, the Society had no rights to set up any Judicial meeting.

  Brummie
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  IslandWoman

  SixofNine,

  See, Jehovah could use imperfect men and not have these kinds of problems. He could train them to be loving and kind and gentle. He could toss out the rule book, or, better yet, make it a useful, helpful tool. He could give them an understanding of human pyschology. He could make sure that men with outrageously dangerous personality flaws were never in a position of power in the congregation.

  Beautiful, just beautiful.

  Thank you,

  IW
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  Brummie

  Six, you put it so much better! I agree.

  One of my contentions with the original post is that exjws dont over generalise when blaming the Society for its wrongs. It is wrong, period. When we discuss "other side issues" we are not using them to prove that the Society is not the truth. Wouldnt JWs just love it if we did?

  We have enough evidence to prove the Society is false already. So the actual over generalisation was to accuse exjws of using local events to make the Society look wrong. ie: "A JW said that TV is demonized so therefore the Society can not be the truth". huh? We have a whole host of reasons to show how pathetic & deceiving the Society is, it was an over generalisation to assume we were using these arguments to make a judgement on the Society as a whole.

  We discuss everything here. the above are not examples of "apostate logical fallacies" but are examples of how we can laugh at ourselves for the silly things we once believed, local or not.

  The fallacy is a JW thing, they are the ones who try to make things "local" by blaming the local elders rather than recognising the Society as the true cruel criminal that it is.
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  Big Tex

  Actually Six I don't necessarliy disagree with you. I guess my take is a literal one. I also think it takes an extraordinary personality to stand up in the face of all that "spirit direction" and refuse to go along. I can understand how someone's weakness or personality traits could indeed be used and exacerbated. And maybe I'm being too hard on elders. I think it's a bit like Oskar Schindler. He was a man of extraordinary courage to stand up and not go along with reprehensible rules. Maybe it's unfair to hold the average elder up to that sort of standard.

  Having said that, I still maintain that we are all responsible for our own behavior. And I mean it literally when I say that the elders, COs and DOs, don't have to act the way they do, especially when they see that those actions cause harm to people.

  But then again, maybe we're saying the same thing. I get confused easily.
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  Confucious

  Brum,

  Excellent posts.