Can You Believe Bible Prophecy?

by Blueblades 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • rem
    rem

    Yiz,

    How can someone prophecy about the Messiah thousands of years before Christ was born and He fulfilled each one of them as it was said about Him? I'm talking about the uncanny fulfillment letter by letter, word for word from different people on up to His birth.

    Can you prophecy about anyone a thousand years from now and be right?

    • First: Many of those "prophecies" are not prophecies at all, they are just poetic language
    • Second: Many of those "prophecies" are not even referring to the messiah
    • Third: Many prophecies were clearly made up in the NT to make it look like Jesus was fulfilling OT prophecies, thus proving Jesus the messiah

    Read each of those "prophecies" carefully and see if they really turn out to be prophecies. You may be amazed.

    rem

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    rem:

    Read each of those "prophecies" carefully and see if they really turn out to be prophecies. You may be amazed.

    Yes, indeed. One of the biggest changes for me over this last year has been to stand back from my fundamentalist conceptions and objectively (as best I can do so) re-evaluate the historicity of the Bible, and for the first time in my life give serious consideration to what the WTS has always dismissed as "higher criticism."

    It was a very difficult step to take.

    Craig

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    Let's have a closer look at these prophecies and their "uncanny" fulfillments

    Born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:21-23)

    Firstly the word used in Isaiah is more correctly translated "young woman". It was mistranslated in the Septuagint. Secondly, we only have Matthew's word for it that Mary was a virgin.

    A descendant of Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3; 22:18; Matthew 1:1; Galatians 3:16)

    The Jewish Messiah? The whole nation were descendants of Abraham. How is that a prophecy?

    Of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:23, 33; Hebrews 7:14)

    Of the house of David (2 Samuel 7:12-16; Matthew 1:1)

    The fact that the two chronologies in Matthew and Luke are contradictory lends strong support to the hypothesis that the "fulfillment" was just made up to suit the prophecy.

    Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2, Matthew 2:1; Luke 2:4-7)

    Even if Micah 5:2 is taken to be a prophecy regarding the location of the birth of the Messiah, we only have the gospel writers' word for it that it was fulfilled. As there is no record of a census as described in these accounts, it seems unlikely that they actually occurred.

    Taken to Egypt (Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:14-15)

    Hosea 11:1 says: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son." It doesn't appear to be a prophecy about the Messiah. Even if it is, again we only have the gospel writers' accounts. That's not a lot of proof.

    Herod´s killing of the infants (Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16-18)

    Again, something of a stretch calling that a prophecy, but at least this time it's something testable. The fact that nobody other than Matthew recorded such a horrific widespread mass murder suggests strongly that the event never took place.

    Anointed by the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:2; Matthew 3:16-17)

    Heralded by the messenger of the Lord (John the Baptist) (Isaiah 40:3; al. 3:1; Matthew 3:1-3)

    Would perform miracles (Isaiah 35:5-6; Matthew 9:35)

    Would preach good news (Isaiah 61:1; Luke 4:14-21)

    Would minister in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1; Matthew 4:12-16)

    Would cleanse the Temple (Malachi 3:1; Matthew 21:12-13)

    All non-prophecies with non-fulfillments.

    Would first present Himself as King 173,880 days from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25; Matthew 21:4-11)

    What date in what year was the decree issued, and what date in what year did Jesus "first present himself as king". I wasn't aware any of the events in his life could be dated so accurately.

    Would enter Jerusalem as a king on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9; Matthew 21:4-9)
    Would be rejected by Jews (Psalm 118:22; I Peter 2:7)
    Die a humiliating death (Psalm 22; Isaiah 53) involving:
    - rejection (Isaiah 53:3; John 1:10-11; 7:5,48)
    - betrayal by a friend (Psalm 41:9; Luke 22:3-4; John 13:18)
    - sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12; Matthew 26:14-15)
    - silence before His accusers (Isaiah 53:7; Matthew 27:12-14)
    - being mocked (Psalm 22: 7-8; Matthew 27:31)
    - beaten (Isaiah 52:14; Matthew 27:26)
    - spit upon (Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 27:30)
    - piercing His hands and feet (Psalm 22:16; Matthew 27:31)
    - being crucified with thieves (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38)
    - praying for His persecutors (Isaiah 53:12; Luke 23:34)
    - piercing His side (Zechariah 12:10; John 19:34)
    - given gall and vinegar to drink (Psalm 69:21, Matthew 27:34, Luke 23:36)
    - no broken bones (Psalm 34:20; John 19:32-36)
    - buried in a rich man´s tomb (Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57-60)
    - casting lots for His garments (Psalm 22:18; John 19:23-24)

    These are all just nonsense. The story was crafted around some of them, and others are just non-prophecies re-interpreted later to bolster support,

    Would rise from the dead!! (Psalm 16:10; Mark 16:6; Acts 2:31)

    Ascend into Heaven (Psalm 68:18; Acts 1:9)

    Would sit down at the right hand of God (Psalm 110:1; Hebrews 1:3)

    If there was proof that Jesus ascended to heaven, would we be having this argument? You can't use something so esoteric as proof for anything.

    Really, Yiz, did you even read this list before you posted them? Is that really what you base your belief system on? If so, I have a used bridge that I'm selling cheap.

  • Yizuman
    Yizuman

    I'm sorry you don't believe.

    The day when the Rapture comes, I imagine you'll believe man when he says we got abducted by aliens.

    Yiz

  • rem
    rem

    Pretty weak, Yiz.

    rem

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    I'm sorry you don't believe.

    Don't be sorry. Just provide some evidence to support your wild assertions or be prepared to have them ridiculed.

    The day when the Rapture comes, I imagine you'll believe man when he says we got abducted by aliens.

    Imagine what you like. You're simply not going to be beamed into space, either by visitors from another planet or the ghost of a Jewish carpenter.

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Yizu, I would like your opinion:

    What if a person (say, just for example, myself) has for all his life believed the Bible as inspired of God, and then, after finally giving due consideration to "critical" analysis, decides that the evidence in hand deems it necessary to step back to a less adamant position, perhaps even becoming a skeptic.

    Do you think the God of the Bible would fault such a person for acting in accord with their best information?

    Craig

    PS: I know this is a bit off-topic, but I'm keying off of your last post.

  • El Kabong
    El Kabong
    The day when the Rapture comes

    The rapture is so bogus. It's based on one sentence in the bible about meeting our Lord in the air. (Wasn't it written by Paul, the same guy who said that Women have their place?)

    There's nothing else in the bible that even supports this. Do people believe in the rapture from the scripture or from that dumb movie?

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    There's nothing else in the bible that even supports this. Do people believe in the rapture from the scripture or from that dumb movie?

    I don't know but I can tell you what they don't base their beliefs on -- evidence.

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