Quesions about Jehovah

by the real truth 54 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  NeonMadman

  AwakenedandFree:

  I didn't realize that your post was a response to me until you told donkey that it was. Sorry.

  That said, nothing you say about Jesus' being a "Mighty God" changes the fact that you are asserting a polytheistic stance. If Jehovah is the "big God" and Jesus is "a god," that leaves you with the problem of having two gods when the Bible is quite clear that there is only one. Unless, of course, you are saying that Jesus is a false god, but I don't think that's where you want to go with this.

  And surely you are aware that the bracketed word [other] in the Colossians passage you quoted is an insertion made by the New World Translation Committee. There is no textual justification for the insertion (as scores of scholars have confirmed), and it seems clear that the insertion was made deliberately to change the meaning of the text. Remove the inserted [other], and the text clearly proves that Jesus is the uncreated God, who 'existed before all things.' As for his being "firstborn," many Greek scholars testify that the word in Greek does not refer to being created, but to preeminence. If Paul had wanted to refer to Jesus as being 'first created,' there was a completely different word that he should have used to convey that meaning.
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  AwakenedAndFree

  NeonMadman said" that leaves you with the problem of having two gods when the Bible is quite clear that there is only one."

  Dear NeonMadman:

  Thank you for your reply.

  John 1:1" In [the] beginning, the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God."

  John 10:30:" I and the Father are one."

  Please note John 10:30: Jesus is in unison with the Father. Appropriately, Jesus Christ is called a "Mighty god" in the sense that he is in unison with the Almighty God.

  Christian Love.

  AAF
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  NeonMadman

  AwakenedandFree:

  It sounds as if you are confirming my statement that you are taking a poytheistic stance.

  And it does disturb me a bit that you quote from the New World Translation and expect that that will resolve doctrinal questions. John 1:1 in the NWT is regarded as a mistranslation by virtually all scholars of biblical Greek. I know the Watchtower makes a big fuss defending its translation, to the point that most JW's don't even explore the issue, just accept what the WT says. But the fact is that "a god" is indefensible, according to both Christian and secular sources.

  In any event, your position still leaves you with two "true" gods, and the Bible is quite clear that there is only one. Jesus is identified with Jehovah on many occasions in the Greek Scriptures, with the writers using Old Testament references to Jehovah and applying them to Jesus.

  This is an excellent page that will help you to understand that the scriptures clearly identify Jesus as being God Almighty. I suggest you spend a little time checking its references: http://www.calvary-tricities.org/trinity.html
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  AwakenedAndFree

  Neonmadman said"This is an excellent page that will help you to understand that the scriptures clearly identify Jesus as being God Almighty. I suggest you spend a little time checking its references:" http://www.calvary-tricities.org/trinity.html

  Dear NeonMadman:
  

  Thanks for referring me to the above website.

  As a Christian, I strongly believe that only Our Creator Jehovah God is Omnipotent in Position and Power. I don't support the trinity doctrine.

  This Scripture in John 14:28 demonstrates that Jesus did NOT make himself equal with God Almighty, Jehovah God:

  John 14:28:"..., because the Father is greater than I am."

  As far as Jesus Christ been referred to as a "God" - it's in the Scriptures that he is referred to as a "God"- it's true the Scriptures refer to Jehovah God as the only true God. I refer to Jesus Christ as a "God" in the sense that Jehovah God created Jesus Christ in HIS IMAGE -he possesses the true God's Godlike- image/qualities. Jesus Christ is a "God" in the figurative sense.

  EXODUS:20:3:"You must not have any other gods against my face."

  Christian Love,

  AAF
• 

  NeonMadman

  Thanks for referring me to the above website.

  You're welcome. Did you actually read any of it and look up any of the scriptures cited, or did you simply say to yourself, "Oh, this is about the Trinity, and I don't believe in that"? The remainder of your response leads me to think it was the latter.

  This Scripture in John 14:28 demonstrates that Jesus did NOT make himself equal with God Almighty, Jehovah God:
  John 14:28:"..., because the Father is greater than I am."

  I guess we're going to run the entire gamut of JW proof texts on the subject, then?

  Actually, it demonstrates no such thing. Being "greater" refers to position, not nature. My boss is "greater" than I am within the company that I work for, but I would certainly take exception if you tried to tell me that that means that he is more human than I am.

  Likewise, within the triune Godhead, the Father has assumed a greater position than the Son, with regard to the functional work of creation and redemption. But that does not mean that the Son is less than equal with the Father as to his nature.

  Jesus is shown over and over again in scripture to be God. In John 20:28, Thomas acknowledges Jesus as his 'Lord and God,' and Jesus commends him for his faith in recognizing Him as such.

  Repeatedly, Jesus is identified with Jehovah. Jesus, for example, is our Savior. Acts 4:12 says that no other name has been given under heaven by which we can be saved than that of Jesus (not even the name of Jehovah). So Jesus is the only Savior. But at Isaiah 43:11, Jehovah says that he is the only Savior. What shall we conclude from this, but that Jesus is Jehovah?

  John 1:3 and Colossians 1:15-20 (read without the dishonestly inserted [other]s) demonstrate that Jesus created all things. I understand that JW's teach that Jesus worked as a "master worker" along with Jehovah in creation. But at Isaiah 44:24, Jehovah is explicit in saying that he did things "alone," "by myself." He had no "master worker" alongside him. If Jesus did the creating - and we are assured by scripture that he did - then he is Jehovah.

  These are just a few of the scripture texts cited on the page I referred you to. Please go back there, read the material and look up the cited scriptures before you toss out more of the usual, easily-refuted JW proof texts.

  As far as Jesus Christ been referred to as a "God" - it's in the Scriptures that he is referred to as a "God"- it's true the Scriptures refer to Jehovah God as the only true God. I refer to Jesus Christ as a "God" in the sense that Jehovah God created Jesus Christ in HIS IMAGE -he possesses the true God's Godlike- image/qualities. Jesus Christ is a "God" in the figurative sense.

  Either he is a god or he isn't. Saying he is a god in the figurative sense is meaningless. If what you mean is that he is a lot like God, but isn't really a god himself, then you are contradicting yourself, since you have asserted that he is "a god" and a "mighty God."

  If, on the other hand, he is a god in your belief, then you are, as I have previously pointed out, a polytheist, as are all Jehovah's Witnesses who truly believe their organization's teachings.