Disfellowshipping - Quid Pro Quo - Satan's Accusation

by doublespeak 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  doublespeak

  If under JW doctrine, Satan's accusation is that a human serves God for the purpose of what he can get out of it, does the disfellowshipping arrangement, exercised to the degree that the governing body deem to be appropriate, support this charge?

  
  Taking for granted the Jehovah’s Witnesses are God’s chosen organization; on the assumption that the angels (who apparently cannot read heart conditions) looking upon humanity who are making a stand for the issue of sovereignty , are unable to discern those who are in the religion because of their family and friends.
  
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  evilApostate

  I think I see what you mean. According to scripture, Satan states that people serve God because of what they can get out of him and not because they genuinely love him. Similarly, there are many who remain JWs just to remain in contact with friends and family and not because they genuinely want to be part of the organization.

  Thing is, that logic can be applied to all Christians. Some serve to go to heaven (or avoid hell) while others serve to avoid eternal destruction at Armageddon and live on a paradise earth. Any how you slice it, it seems that Satan is right. lol
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  schnell

  Yes.
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  evilApostate

  @schnell:

  The funny thing about pascal's wager is that there exists many gods and religious beliefs concerning said gods. Which one is correct? To choose one is also to gamble, isn't it? What if you pick the wrong one?
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  schnell

  And wouldn't they all see through it? How do you fake it with an omniscient god?
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  evilApostate

  "And wouldn't they all see through it? How do you fake it with an omniscient god?"

  Precisely. That's one of many things which helped me to leave JW land. I could no longer go on to practice something I didn't believe. I reasoned that it would be pointless to excercise fake faith in God IF in fact he existed.
  
  
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  Village Idiot

  evilApostate,
  

  The funny thing about pascal's wager is that there exists many gods and religious beliefs concerning said gods.

  The problem with Pascal's wager is that it assumes a moralistic god who cares about good and evil and/or your wellbeing. What if a creator god doesn't give a fig about you whether you believe in him or not?

  On the other hand let's assume that God is a moralistic god who doesn't mind whether you believe in him or not?

  Pascal's idea of god was limited by Judeo-Christian concepts, not Deistic or non-biblical Theism.
  
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  Village Idiot

  A little off topic but -

  On the issue of God's deal with the Devil in order to prove the faithfulness of his worshiper Job, I'm reminded of something I was told by an elder.

  He said that Jehovah allowed his worshippers - JWs - to be misled about the end coming soon because if they didn't believe that then they would become unfaithful. How I wish that he could be here for me to respond. And the response would be:

  If the Witnesses can't accept an ordinary life of growing up; having children; and growing old; then how worthless would their faith have be? Would you expect them to put up with several months or even a few years of persecution in the Great Tribulation? Wouldn't they be proving that Satan was right just because they wanted their paradise now and not immediately after their death from old age?
  
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  Saethydd

  What if the god of the Bible is actually just a test given by the true creator to see whether humans actually have any moral sense of their own, or if they would be willing to follow any God no matter how cruel a depraved his actions?
  
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  Village Idiot

  Saethydd,
  

  What if the god of the Bible is actually just a test given by the true creator to see whether humans actually have any moral sense, or if they would be willing to follow any God no matter how cruel a depraved his actions.

  I thought of something similar, hypothetically though.

  What if there was a moralistic god and a depraved devil and it was that devil invented the Bible just to mislead people and get them to commit heinous crimes? It would not have required that this god imagine this as a test but allowing the Devil to use it would amount to the same thing.

  As Thomas Paine said:

  • “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.”